Have you ever lost your watch's box and papers?
Discussion
I've been browsing pre-owned Rolex models recently and I'm amazed at how many of these watches do not have their box or papers.
With the abundance of Rolex fakes kicking around, having some documentation with the watch provides a bit more confidence that the watch is legit.
It got me thinking - how are all these important documents getting lost? Do folk get back from the AD, put their new watch on wrist and dump the box/papers in the recycling?
With the abundance of Rolex fakes kicking around, having some documentation with the watch provides a bit more confidence that the watch is legit.
It got me thinking - how are all these important documents getting lost? Do folk get back from the AD, put their new watch on wrist and dump the box/papers in the recycling?
I have alway thought the same thing, i can understand if its a 20 year old watch (papers and box wernt an issue then) but how do you loose box and card when a watch is say 2-3 years old!!! Its like getting a new car and throwing the V5? I keep all my cards and books in a safe and boxes in a couple of suit cases in the loft, not rocket science.
Yes. Whilst I was working away, my Wife threw away the box, papers and receipts to my Pasha, my Series 2 F1, her Tank, all of her Chopard jewellery, her engagement ring and our custom made wedding rings.
She also threw away my ST Dupont Ligne 2 lighter, her Cartier and Dunhill lighters as she “didn’t think they were worth much”.
I’ve never committed an act of domestic violence before, but that was probably the closest I’ve ever come, especially when somehow, it was all my fault that she’d done this.
As much as I’d massively prefer buying a watch with box, papers and original bill of sale, it wouldn’t be an immediate deal breaker.
She also threw away my ST Dupont Ligne 2 lighter, her Cartier and Dunhill lighters as she “didn’t think they were worth much”.
I’ve never committed an act of domestic violence before, but that was probably the closest I’ve ever come, especially when somehow, it was all my fault that she’d done this.
As much as I’d massively prefer buying a watch with box, papers and original bill of sale, it wouldn’t be an immediate deal breaker.
Another thought, say you buy a Submariner privately without box or papers. A few years later you try to sell it but it transpires the watch was stolen a 10 years before and the original owner recognises it and still has the box and papers with the matching serial numbers. What happens then? Does it get returned to the original owner like a cloned car would?
I've bought a couple without papers I have a Planet Ocean right now that I bought with no papers not in it's original box but had been submitted to Omega for a service so it had some of the packaging they use to ship it back and a fresh invoice. It was quite a bit less than most of others I saw at the time I think it was £2000 or just over. Guy was local and I never sell watches so the papers didn't really matter. On a bigger purchase I think it would be essential though although again I would have big saving on something like a Daytona
I can see a situation where someone goes to another country to buy a watch and abandons the box and papers to bring it home on wrist trying to avoid an import duty.
I have heard (from youtube) that if someone unknowingly bought a stolen Rolex and later sent it to Rolex for a service, if Rolex have a record it is stolen they will retain the watch, leaving the buyer high and dry.
I have heard (from youtube) that if someone unknowingly bought a stolen Rolex and later sent it to Rolex for a service, if Rolex have a record it is stolen they will retain the watch, leaving the buyer high and dry.
I suffered a house burglary a few years back
I had hidden a couple of watches in my sock drawer (!) but the thieves took the B&P for the Sub (amongst other things)
Rolex doesn't reissue papers, so when it came to sell the Rolex (needed money for a tax bill!) I was about 10% down on value
I have bought two Omegas without B&P and Omega were happy to issue new papers for about 100 quid
For what it's worth the Omega faux leather red boxes disintegrate faster than a choc ice in the middle of the Sahara
Wooden boxes are nice through, probably better than the Rolex ones
I had hidden a couple of watches in my sock drawer (!) but the thieves took the B&P for the Sub (amongst other things)
Rolex doesn't reissue papers, so when it came to sell the Rolex (needed money for a tax bill!) I was about 10% down on value
I have bought two Omegas without B&P and Omega were happy to issue new papers for about 100 quid
For what it's worth the Omega faux leather red boxes disintegrate faster than a choc ice in the middle of the Sahara
Wooden boxes are nice through, probably better than the Rolex ones
hungry_hog said:
I have bought two Omegas without B&P and Omega were happy to issue new papers for about 100 quid
When I asked Cartier the same question a few years back, they pint blank refused. They stated, (according to the AD), that they, (Cartier), couldn’t verify the authenticity of any of their watches without B&P, which I found odd.105.4 said:
When I asked Cartier the same question a few years back, they pint blank refused. They stated, (according to the AD), that they, (Cartier), couldn’t verify the authenticity of any of their watches without B&P, which I found odd.
Cartier is owned by Richemont group...lots of "stories" on their customer service aroundBought a few without box and papers. Just do your due diligence and take advantage of a lower price. No real plan to sell on but from when I bought although I'm well in profit. If it's a Rolex then laying out the money for an authorised service will give you the service warranty card.
After all you don't wear a box (unless cricket is your game).
Some people just throw all sorts away seeing it as clutter.
After all you don't wear a box (unless cricket is your game).
Some people just throw all sorts away seeing it as clutter.
My first ever proper watch was a JLC with no box and papers.
The UK based trader kindly shared the watch's serial number engraved on the back and JLC confirmed the watch was not reported as lost or stolen, which gave me a lot more peace of mind.
Otherwise I probably wouldn't have gone for it!
The UK based trader kindly shared the watch's serial number engraved on the back and JLC confirmed the watch was not reported as lost or stolen, which gave me a lot more peace of mind.
Otherwise I probably wouldn't have gone for it!
swanseaboydan said:
I see your point but when I was in Dubai recently the shops there were selling all the boxes for all the brands there and they are very easy to fake but pretty much impossible to tell from the original - so there is no telling if a box is genuine or not
This - Boxes and documents are easier and cheaper to fake than watches, so they don't really give much guarantee of authenticity.Everyone wants a Rolex, it seems and so every crook is happy to sell shady ones.
Just widen your horizons, lots of much better watches out there for less money if you can see past the brand (which so many cannot).
M
ClaphamGT3 said:
Box goes straight in the bin when I get home. Papers possibly kicking around somewhere but where God only knows.
Some boxes, like those from Breguet and Patek (for example) are quite beautiful. I couldn't imagine putting those in the bin. A Casio might be different. Selling a decent watch without means less money.I tend to regard watches with no box and papers as probably stolen, so wouldn't touch with a barge pole.
Back in the day, a lot of people weren't so precious with watches, so they threw out everything. The constant price increases since 2000 has changed the mindset of who buys watches. A lot are flippers.
I have personally lost interest in watches when the Apple Watch came out. Didn't want to deal with flippers, grey market, stock hoarders, lack of interest in watches, too many complications, blacked out watches and steep servicing costs. Servicing costs went up 400% over the last two decades and when you have multiple watches with complications, this is a lot of money that one could spend on other more meaningful things.
So yeah, if the watch is twenty years old, it will be normal to not come with B&P. If the watch is newer and does not have original strap and buckle, you should question the providence of such timepieces seriously.
The watch market is pretty much now for flippers.
Out with the old and in with the new.
I have personally lost interest in watches when the Apple Watch came out. Didn't want to deal with flippers, grey market, stock hoarders, lack of interest in watches, too many complications, blacked out watches and steep servicing costs. Servicing costs went up 400% over the last two decades and when you have multiple watches with complications, this is a lot of money that one could spend on other more meaningful things.
So yeah, if the watch is twenty years old, it will be normal to not come with B&P. If the watch is newer and does not have original strap and buckle, you should question the providence of such timepieces seriously.
The watch market is pretty much now for flippers.
Out with the old and in with the new.
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