Nice story

[johnny senna]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rolex-Submariner-/1404343180...

A Rolex expert that some of you may know about has inspected it and he says it is the real deal. There's talk of it going for over 70 grand. I wish my dad had one of these in his sock drawer!

[LukeBird]

Saw that over on TZ-UK.
It was a superb story!

[jagman21]

50k and 3days to go. well i'm out.

I can't believe something in that condition can for that price, amazing, Nice to see a windfall for someone who deserves it.

Would restoring it lower the value?

[LukeBird]

jagman21 said:

Would restoring it lower the value?

If changing the parts, then yes.
If just cleaning up what's there, as long as it's not an OTT clean then probably not.

[Dominic H]

LukeBird said:

jagman21 said:

Would restoring it lower the value?

If changing the parts, then yes.
If just cleaning up what's there, as long as it's not an OTT clean then probably not.

The 'Rolex Expert' who inspected the watch, and then published a very frank,honest and glowing report on the watch is of course Mike Woods.

http://newturfers.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4030

Here's an example of a similar watch Mike bought earlier this year, and this shows the correct level of restoration (as little as poss) required for these watches.

http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t...

A movement service will be straightforward for any competent Rolex watchmaker.

Here is a small part of Mikes' collection....



Add a great number of perfect COMEX, 1655 Orange Hands, GMT's, Daytonas and you have one of the best collections around...

Have a look at Mike's 'museum' page, and keep going to the bottom of the page.....

http://www.theoldwatchshop.com/museum.html

Nice!

Edited by Dominic H on Saturday 7th August 08:22

[johnny senna]

Wow Dom. I take it all Mike's Milsubs in the pic are 70 grand as well?

[GingerWizard]

why are they worth so much? Limited run? Or did you have to be double ninja, jackie chan elite special black op stealth force hard (parachuting into water with no parachute type of thing...) to get one.....

[andy_s]

Here's a collection that even MW was a little jealous of:



Apparently it includes 3-4 milsubs, 11 COMEX, original DeepSea, all double red Sea Dwellers and a plethora of other rare beasts. No wonder they are so scarce...

[andy_s]

johnny senna said:

Wow Dom. I take it all Mike's Milsubs in the pic are 70 grand as well?

The UK milsub hands, just the hands, fetch between £11-18k on their own.

[AllNines]

Forgive my ignorance but why is this watch so special? I understand that it is rare but what differences are there to other models of the period?
I am no Rolex fan but I do appreciate the design; compared to most of their stuff it's actually quite pleasing on the (my) eye.

[andy_s]

AllNines said:

Forgive my ignorance but why is this watch so special? I understand that it is rare but what differences are there to other models of the period?
I am no Rolex fan but I do appreciate the design; compared to most of their stuff it's actually quite pleasing on the (my) eye.

It's a variety of factors I think;
Rare: (1250 issued in the '70's, very few in the wild, quite a few in sock drawers and more hoarded as above!)
Different: (the milsub handset was something that was put on by the UK MoD, not Rolex)
Provenance: (If you can attach the watch to a serving person who had it on issue then the unique history sets the watch apart from others)
History: Issued by the Navy to divers in the '70's, historical associations with SBS et al.
Intersection of sub-sets: People collect Rolexs', people collect military watches, people collect vintage watches - this covers all those bases and is seen/percieved as being the pinnacle (or close enough) in collecting terms in all domains.
Design: Seen as pretty much the standard for a military type dial, construction is high quality and movement is in-house.
Price: Of course, being a bit more cynical, prices like this become a self-fulfilling prophecy in a sense - it always creates a 'wow' factor.

Something as good is perhaps something like a Tudor Marine National (France) issued watch - same vintage period, same provenance/history, same classic design, same sort of rarity, 'snowflake' hands....but these don't get within a tenth of the value of the Rolex - why? It's just that Rolex thing I think. The Tudors were originally less expensive than the Rolex counterparts, used an ETA movement, more common. Pre-'74 Tudor MN:

Post '74 Tudor MN:


I've got a US military '74 Benrus Type 1 issued diver coming in at the moment, ticks all the boxes of the Rolex/Tudor MN (in fact it was more expensive than the Rolex back in the day and 'may' have been worn by UDT/SEAL over in 'Nam - if you squint a bit & ignore the lack of wear! ) but a wee bit cheaper than the milsub now!




(Not my pics, yet...)

Edited by andy_s on Saturday 7th August 12:49

[AllNines]

andy_s said:

Useful stuff

Thanks Andy. I still can't quite get my head around the value, though. Each to their own, and all that.

[andy_s]

AllNines said:

andy_s said:

Useful stuff

Thanks Andy. I still can't quite get my head around the value, though. Each to their own, and all that.

Quite - I'd buy one at say £8-10k if I had the cash, but not more. But there're quite a few people with £50k+ in their sky rocket who are happy to pay this. Market forces and all that.

Arguably it was a good investment in the past and people also see it as an investment piece for the future, but the major gains have been had already I think.

Edited by andy_s on Saturday 7th August 12:55

[johnny senna]

andy_s said:

johnny senna said:

Wow Dom. I take it all Mike's Milsubs in the pic are 70 grand as well?

The UK milsub hands, just the hands, fetch between £11-18k on their own.

Cheers mate.

What was different about the hands? Why were they changed? Why were the other changes made?

[andy_s]

johnny senna said:

andy_s said:

johnny senna said:

Wow Dom. I take it all Mike's Milsubs in the pic are 70 grand as well?

The UK milsub hands, just the hands, fetch between £11-18k on their own.

Cheers mate.

What was different about the hands? Why were they changed? Why were the other changes made?

I'm no expert, but vaguely think it was specified by the MoD, perhaps for better visibility. The Rolex type 'Mercedes' hands (the hour hand has a three pointed 'Mercedes' logo shape) are the norm on Rolex, the broadsword type shaped hour hand here is a bespoke item, if you will, rare on any watch. The 'T' circled on the dial is another feature of the milsubs - it stands for Tritium (used in the lume) and was a general specification for mil issue items. The bezel is unique to the milsub also. This sort of thing lifts a collectors watch up a rank or two, the watch is bespoke to the specific requirement for the job. It's a very anorakish thing I suppose!
I'm sure someone knows better/different though, that's just what I remember reading once.

Edited by andy_s on Saturday 7th August 13:34

[johnny senna]

Thanks Andy

[sneijder]

Last time this happened there were mutterings that issued stuff wasn't your property and had to be returned at the end of service.

Does anyone know the legalities ?

[LukeBird]

I presume these would all have been de-commissioned now (even if they don't have the de-comm papers).

[Dominic H]

sneijder said:

Last time this happened there were mutterings that issued stuff wasn't your property and had to be returned at the end of service.

Does anyone know the legalities ?

Some were lost and the appropriate fine for lost equipment was levied against the enlisted man. Some were purchased by the enlisted that the watches were issued to and a load were sold off at Govt army surplus auctions. Differentiating between the three would be virtually impossible...

[Gazzab]

Must set the ebay snipe for that one...