Diesel Treatment for Water/ Bug
Discussion
Had someone out to look at the engines and diesel tanks.
He has suggested that there is water in the system. A good service will clear most problems with filters etc and engines are being serviced at the weekend!
However he did say I need to get some diesel treatment for the water and possibly for any traces of bug that may be there although he said unlikely.
Internet searching has come up with the following:
http://www.marinemegastore.com/product.asp?pf_id=X...
http://www.force4.co.uk/5096/Force-4-Marine-16-Die...
Are these the best/ most recommended products?
Do I need 2 seperate treatments or is there a single product that will attack bug and eat any water in the tanks?
He has suggested that there is water in the system. A good service will clear most problems with filters etc and engines are being serviced at the weekend!
However he did say I need to get some diesel treatment for the water and possibly for any traces of bug that may be there although he said unlikely.
Internet searching has come up with the following:
http://www.marinemegastore.com/product.asp?pf_id=X...
http://www.force4.co.uk/5096/Force-4-Marine-16-Die...
Are these the best/ most recommended products?
Do I need 2 seperate treatments or is there a single product that will attack bug and eat any water in the tanks?
Just realised where I found that report I mentioned before. It was on the marine16 site!
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&am...
So according to PBO, Grotamar and Marine16 are the way to go.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&am...
So according to PBO, Grotamar and Marine16 are the way to go.
I'm a bit biased here as we are agents for Grotamar in Guernsey. The new Grotamar, in the white bottle not the old black one, self dispurses in the tank rather than being added at refuel. It works well so far.
The other thing to look at is why the tank is taking in water. Have a look at the rubber seal on your deckfill lid, they do perish after a while and let rain/spray in. A newish product we are about to try is the Racor funnel, not used it yet but will try it this summer.
Hope this helps.
The other thing to look at is why the tank is taking in water. Have a look at the rubber seal on your deckfill lid, they do perish after a while and let rain/spray in. A newish product we are about to try is the Racor funnel, not used it yet but will try it this summer.
Hope this helps.
Indeed chaps I understand both of your comments about keeping the water out.
The rubber seals on both fillers seem ok however it will not hurt to change them as another precautionary measure.
This old boy who moors a few boats back from me has suggested putting a good helping of vaseline around the thread/ seal of the filler to also keep water out.
In the end I opted for Marine 16.
Yes the Grotamar seemed a better product but its availability is a bit sparce from google searches etc, its good to have a great product but if people can't easily purchase the stuff it is a problem, so ordered marine 16 along with a few other bits from a known supplier.
The rubber seals on both fillers seem ok however it will not hurt to change them as another precautionary measure.
This old boy who moors a few boats back from me has suggested putting a good helping of vaseline around the thread/ seal of the filler to also keep water out.
In the end I opted for Marine 16.
Yes the Grotamar seemed a better product but its availability is a bit sparce from google searches etc, its good to have a great product but if people can't easily purchase the stuff it is a problem, so ordered marine 16 along with a few other bits from a known supplier.
Jon, couple of things to keep you thinking. (And put you off boating for ever!)
Water can get in from several places.
Fillers is obvious especially if you have a tendancy to keep washing the decks so check the fillers thoroughly and vaseline is a good back up.
Condensation in tanks. This is probably the biggest cause of my problems. The Detroits (2 Stroke) recirculate something like four times as much fuel as they use so I get hot fuel returned to the tanks and the cooling process cannot help. But for everyone - Keep those tanks full to avoid water build up.
Fuel vents. You should have a couple of fuel vents somewhere on the outside of the boat with a little gauze in the end to stop water ingress. With age these can be missing / broken.
The supply chain - where do you buy your fuel? Some outlets have low turnovers and poor filtration so you could well be buying the water in the first place. The low turnover places may well buy their fuel in small enough quantities to introduce a third party into the delivery chain increasing the risk of contamination.
Being on the river you are probably buying eco fuel rather than marine diesel. This in itself introduces a problem as the biofuel content supposedly increases the volume of dissolved water in the fuel and introduces an increased risk of microbial growth.
http://www.gmtlab.co.uk/news-2009-11-03.html
It is questionable now whether sea outlets are supplying fuel as road fuel with just a red additive and the damage to marine engines could be catastrophic for some.
If you are getting your fuel from other sources you will firstly end up looking odd with a huge arm from carrying drums back and forth but also proably importing the problem as you go.
As for low sulphur.
Less sulphur = less lubrication = engine wear.
Acid build ups = breaking down of pipes and fittings not designed for it = engine failure.
But you will have saved a fluffy bunny so that's alright.
I remember when boating was easy.
Water can get in from several places.
Fillers is obvious especially if you have a tendancy to keep washing the decks so check the fillers thoroughly and vaseline is a good back up.
Condensation in tanks. This is probably the biggest cause of my problems. The Detroits (2 Stroke) recirculate something like four times as much fuel as they use so I get hot fuel returned to the tanks and the cooling process cannot help. But for everyone - Keep those tanks full to avoid water build up.
Fuel vents. You should have a couple of fuel vents somewhere on the outside of the boat with a little gauze in the end to stop water ingress. With age these can be missing / broken.
The supply chain - where do you buy your fuel? Some outlets have low turnovers and poor filtration so you could well be buying the water in the first place. The low turnover places may well buy their fuel in small enough quantities to introduce a third party into the delivery chain increasing the risk of contamination.
Being on the river you are probably buying eco fuel rather than marine diesel. This in itself introduces a problem as the biofuel content supposedly increases the volume of dissolved water in the fuel and introduces an increased risk of microbial growth.
http://www.gmtlab.co.uk/news-2009-11-03.html
It is questionable now whether sea outlets are supplying fuel as road fuel with just a red additive and the damage to marine engines could be catastrophic for some.
If you are getting your fuel from other sources you will firstly end up looking odd with a huge arm from carrying drums back and forth but also proably importing the problem as you go.
As for low sulphur.
Less sulphur = less lubrication = engine wear.
Acid build ups = breaking down of pipes and fittings not designed for it = engine failure.
But you will have saved a fluffy bunny so that's alright.
I remember when boating was easy.
MOTORVATOR said:
Jon, couple of things to keep you thinking. (And put you off boating for ever!)
Water can get in from several places.
Fillers is obvious especially if you have a tendancy to keep washing the decks so check the fillers thoroughly and vaseline is a good back up.
Condensation in tanks. This is probably the biggest cause of my problems. The Detroits (2 Stroke) recirculate something like four times as much fuel as they use so I get hot fuel returned to the tanks and the cooling process cannot help. But for everyone - Keep those tanks full to avoid water build up.
Fuel vents. You should have a couple of fuel vents somewhere on the outside of the boat with a little gauze in the end to stop water ingress. With age these can be missing / broken.
The supply chain - where do you buy your fuel? Some outlets have low turnovers and poor filtration so you could well be buying the water in the first place. The low turnover places may well buy their fuel in small enough quantities to introduce a third party into the delivery chain increasing the risk of contamination.
Being on the river you are probably buying eco fuel rather than marine diesel. This in itself introduces a problem as the biofuel content supposedly increases the volume of dissolved water in the fuel and introduces an increased risk of microbial growth.
http://www.gmtlab.co.uk/news-2009-11-03.html
It is questionable now whether sea outlets are supplying fuel as road fuel with just a red additive and the damage to marine engines could be catastrophic for some.
If you are getting your fuel from other sources you will firstly end up looking odd with a huge arm from carrying drums back and forth but also proably importing the problem as you go.
As for low sulphur.
Less sulphur = less lubrication = engine wear.
Acid build ups = breaking down of pipes and fittings not designed for it = engine failure.
But you will have saved a fluffy bunny so that's alright.
I remember when boating was easy.
Fair points there chap Water can get in from several places.
Fillers is obvious especially if you have a tendancy to keep washing the decks so check the fillers thoroughly and vaseline is a good back up.
Condensation in tanks. This is probably the biggest cause of my problems. The Detroits (2 Stroke) recirculate something like four times as much fuel as they use so I get hot fuel returned to the tanks and the cooling process cannot help. But for everyone - Keep those tanks full to avoid water build up.
Fuel vents. You should have a couple of fuel vents somewhere on the outside of the boat with a little gauze in the end to stop water ingress. With age these can be missing / broken.
The supply chain - where do you buy your fuel? Some outlets have low turnovers and poor filtration so you could well be buying the water in the first place. The low turnover places may well buy their fuel in small enough quantities to introduce a third party into the delivery chain increasing the risk of contamination.
Being on the river you are probably buying eco fuel rather than marine diesel. This in itself introduces a problem as the biofuel content supposedly increases the volume of dissolved water in the fuel and introduces an increased risk of microbial growth.
http://www.gmtlab.co.uk/news-2009-11-03.html
It is questionable now whether sea outlets are supplying fuel as road fuel with just a red additive and the damage to marine engines could be catastrophic for some.
If you are getting your fuel from other sources you will firstly end up looking odd with a huge arm from carrying drums back and forth but also proably importing the problem as you go.
As for low sulphur.
Less sulphur = less lubrication = engine wear.
Acid build ups = breaking down of pipes and fittings not designed for it = engine failure.
But you will have saved a fluffy bunny so that's alright.
I remember when boating was easy.
boat gets washed everytime I go out in her, even if for just a few hours, so water could possibly be ingressing through the cap so worth checking.With regards to the fuel, I have only ever purchased from these guys:
http://www.thamesmarina.co.uk/ - they do purchase fairly large amounts and quite regularly so think and hope it is of good quality (unless someone knows different?) also a friendly bunch in the shop which goes a long way in my book and always get the propulsion/heating percentage accurate
Interesting reading though Motorvator. Ohh also forgot to mention that the old Perkins in my Colvic are Turbo Diesels. The service guy pointed out the blowers to me last weekend, so must stand corrected and hang my head in shame for not spotting them on the 30 year old diesels!
I realise that marine 16 and similar products are a cure for a problem, surely there is a product that is preventative maintenance to any water ingress, eg a capfull of this stuff every 100 litres of fuel will keep the gremlins/ water content to a minimum?
m0ssy said:
Fair points there chap boat gets washed everytime I go out in her, even if for just a few hours, so water could possibly be ingressing through the cap so worth checking.
With regards to the fuel, I have only ever purchased from these guys:
http://www.thamesmarina.co.uk/ - they do purchase fairly large amounts and quite regularly so think and hope it is of good quality (unless someone knows different?) also a friendly bunch in the shop which goes a long way in my book and always get the propulsion/heating percentage accurate
Interesting reading though Motorvator. Ohh also forgot to mention that the old Perkins in my Colvic are Turbo Diesels. The service guy pointed out the blowers to me last weekend, so must stand corrected and hang my head in shame for not spotting them on the 30 year old diesels!
I realise that marine 16 and similar products are a cure for a problem, surely there is a product that is preventative maintenance to any water ingress, eg a capfull of this stuff every 100 litres of fuel will keep the gremlins/ water content to a minimum?
Here have a have big DOH! for the turbos! boat gets washed everytime I go out in her, even if for just a few hours, so water could possibly be ingressing through the cap so worth checking.With regards to the fuel, I have only ever purchased from these guys:
http://www.thamesmarina.co.uk/ - they do purchase fairly large amounts and quite regularly so think and hope it is of good quality (unless someone knows different?) also a friendly bunch in the shop which goes a long way in my book and always get the propulsion/heating percentage accurate
Interesting reading though Motorvator. Ohh also forgot to mention that the old Perkins in my Colvic are Turbo Diesels. The service guy pointed out the blowers to me last weekend, so must stand corrected and hang my head in shame for not spotting them on the 30 year old diesels!
I realise that marine 16 and similar products are a cure for a problem, surely there is a product that is preventative maintenance to any water ingress, eg a capfull of this stuff every 100 litres of fuel will keep the gremlins/ water content to a minimum?
Problem with just adding continually is that the bugs become immune. Seems to be the biggest problem with this stuff and probably why different people report different results with the same products.
Give it a few years and I guess everyone will say that Grotamar and Marine16 are crap unless they keep changing the formula.
The long term solution is as pointed out by Huntsman. Get the water out and keep the water out.
And maybe install some decent Racor filters as front line defence if you haven't got a good filtration system to start with.
MOTORVATOR said:
Here have a have big DOH! for the turbos!
Indeed I deserved the DOH! but expected more! 
When at the mooring last weekend with the marine mechanic we pulled up the floor of the boat to see where the fuel goes and was a funny setup.
I have 2 seperate diesel tanks as previously mentioned and a 3rd tank under the floor in the centre of the boat. Both of the other tanks feed into this tank and this tank in turn feeds to the engines passing through filters etc
Mechanic chap said a reason for this was so when being tossed around at sea the fuel feed to the engines should not be affected, which made sense at the time.
Poor old girl is in bits at the moment, aft cabin pulled apart, wheelhouse pulled apart, main cabin pulled apart but it has been an interesting experience in getting to 'know your boat' even if i have missed a couple of MINOR details (blowers)
m0ssy said:
Indeed I deserved the DOH! but expected more!
When at the mooring last weekend with the marine mechanic we pulled up the floor of the boat to see where the fuel goes and was a funny setup.
I have 2 seperate diesel tanks as previously mentioned and a 3rd tank under the floor in the centre of the boat. Both of the other tanks feed into this tank and this tank in turn feeds to the engines passing through filters etc
Mechanic chap said a reason for this was so when being tossed around at sea the fuel feed to the engines should not be affected, which made sense at the time.
Poor old girl is in bits at the moment, aft cabin pulled apart, wheelhouse pulled apart, main cabin pulled apart but it has been an interesting experience in getting to 'know your boat' even if i have missed a couple of MINOR details (blowers)
You're right shouldn't waste an opportunity to lambast a fellow Ph'er. When at the mooring last weekend with the marine mechanic we pulled up the floor of the boat to see where the fuel goes and was a funny setup.
I have 2 seperate diesel tanks as previously mentioned and a 3rd tank under the floor in the centre of the boat. Both of the other tanks feed into this tank and this tank in turn feeds to the engines passing through filters etc
Mechanic chap said a reason for this was so when being tossed around at sea the fuel feed to the engines should not be affected, which made sense at the time.
Poor old girl is in bits at the moment, aft cabin pulled apart, wheelhouse pulled apart, main cabin pulled apart but it has been an interesting experience in getting to 'know your boat' even if i have missed a couple of MINOR details (blowers)
I'm not sure I agree with your mechanic mate about the tanks. A decent tank should have baffles to stop the problems of being tossed around at sea. More importantly it would be seen as a benefit to have completely isolated tanks per side that can be connected if required. That then provides fuel security as if one side becomes contaminated / empties away in bilges etc you can still get home.
My guess is that they put this setup in to get an extended fuel range while not having to change the internal layout.
m0ssy said:
Ohh also forgot to mention that the old Perkins in my Colvic are Turbo Diesels. The service guy pointed out the blowers to me last weekend, so must stand corrected and hang my head in shame for not spotting them on the 30 year old diesels!
On a T6.354 you'll be lucky if they blow more than about 8 psi so it doesn't matter much!I use lots of vaseline on the deck fillers.
The additive wont absorb the water, or turn it into something else, you need to carefully monitor the separators and filters for that.
You should always have 2 complete sets of new filters on board.
m0ssy said:
Had someone out to look at the engines and diesel tanks.
He has suggested that there is water in the system. A good service will clear most problems with filters etc and engines are being serviced at the weekend!
However he did say I need to get some diesel treatment for the water and possibly for any traces of bug that may be there although he said unlikely.
Internet searching has come up with the following:
http://www.marinemegastore.com/product.asp?pf_id=X...
http://www.force4.co.uk/5096/Force-4-Marine-16-Die...
Are these the best/ most recommended products?
Do I need 2 seperate treatments or is there a single product that will attack bug and eat any water in the tanks?
Marine 16 Is the way to go as it is a really recognized brand. I have tried both links and it looks like none of them work actually. I found it on couple other shops while searching online and also amazon and ebay. It looks like they do 2 products; He has suggested that there is water in the system. A good service will clear most problems with filters etc and engines are being serviced at the weekend!
However he did say I need to get some diesel treatment for the water and possibly for any traces of bug that may be there although he said unlikely.
Internet searching has come up with the following:
http://www.marinemegastore.com/product.asp?pf_id=X...
http://www.force4.co.uk/5096/Force-4-Marine-16-Die...
Are these the best/ most recommended products?
Do I need 2 seperate treatments or is there a single product that will attack bug and eat any water in the tanks?
Marine 16 Diesel Bug Treatment (Prevents and Eradicates diesel bug)
- used for regular preventative use so you have to use about 100ml ever 2000litres of diesel fuel
- can be used for mild contaminations (when you notice traces of some slimes but no blocking of filters - use 100ml every 500litres
- for more severe contaminations add 100ml to every 100litres. I suggest adding directly to the tank ideally re-fuelling to increase mixing
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Marine-16-Diesel-Bug-Tr...
https://www.foxschandlery.com/marine-16-diesel-bug...
Marine 16 Diesel Fuel Complete Treatment
Can be added directly to the fuel tank Will only treat 500 litres of fuel the 500ml bottle
You can find it on ebay here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MARINE-16-DIESEL-FUEL-C...
or most of the chandleries will stock this item as it is very used by sailors on their boats.
https://www.foxschandlery.com/marine-16
Edited by DannyJ1988 on Tuesday 17th July 15:46
I would suggest polishing the fuel in your tanks every couple of months or so, especially if the boat is not used much and you have large tanks, with the fuel just sat in there for long periods of time. Boats which are used regularly and the fuel tanks replenished often should not be effected so much.
Polishing the fuel can be done by external companies, or by yourself, by passing the fuel from the lowest point in each fuel tank through a in line water separator and fine fuel filter and then back to the fuel tank. As water sits at the bottom of the tank and any microbes grow on the water fuel interface line then both of these can be dealt with in the same process. Obviously if you have an existing microbe issue you will need to treat the microbes first as otherwise they will reestablish themselves from the sides of the fuel tank when any water reenters the tanks.
There are various fuel polishing setups available to purchase and fit, but if you already have a separator filter set up in line before your engine, you could adapt the pipework to allow a separate pick up from the lowest part of the fuel tank and return from the fuel separator filter to the tank and just add a small fuel pump to circulate the fuel (suggest to check boat fuel line regulations for your country as some will differ on whats allowed). Just remember when you finish polishing using this process to replace the filter cartridge with a new one and clean out the filter bowl and water separator to prevent the collected debris from blocking the fuel system when used as intended to supply your engine.
Polishing the fuel can be done by external companies, or by yourself, by passing the fuel from the lowest point in each fuel tank through a in line water separator and fine fuel filter and then back to the fuel tank. As water sits at the bottom of the tank and any microbes grow on the water fuel interface line then both of these can be dealt with in the same process. Obviously if you have an existing microbe issue you will need to treat the microbes first as otherwise they will reestablish themselves from the sides of the fuel tank when any water reenters the tanks.
There are various fuel polishing setups available to purchase and fit, but if you already have a separator filter set up in line before your engine, you could adapt the pipework to allow a separate pick up from the lowest part of the fuel tank and return from the fuel separator filter to the tank and just add a small fuel pump to circulate the fuel (suggest to check boat fuel line regulations for your country as some will differ on whats allowed). Just remember when you finish polishing using this process to replace the filter cartridge with a new one and clean out the filter bowl and water separator to prevent the collected debris from blocking the fuel system when used as intended to supply your engine.
Spent 15 mins finding the info and then see the post is properly old.
Oh well for any others using the power of Google this may help. We use Cardev filters on our Subsea ROV hydraulic systems. We find them absolutely brilliant and save vast amounts of water contaminated oil having to be ditched to flush the system.
Far as I can see you can get diesel filters to remove water too. Have it tee'd off after the fuel take offs and back into the return to tank. This is if sitting for long periods, install a solar operated pump prior to the filter. Have shut off valves either side to enable changing of the filter which is a 5 minutes job.
You can tee off after the engine fuel pumps but this is only then filtering with the engines running. They tend to work by filtering tiny amounts of fluid through an orifice, for long times.
Oh well for any others using the power of Google this may help. We use Cardev filters on our Subsea ROV hydraulic systems. We find them absolutely brilliant and save vast amounts of water contaminated oil having to be ditched to flush the system.
Far as I can see you can get diesel filters to remove water too. Have it tee'd off after the fuel take offs and back into the return to tank. This is if sitting for long periods, install a solar operated pump prior to the filter. Have shut off valves either side to enable changing of the filter which is a 5 minutes job.
You can tee off after the engine fuel pumps but this is only then filtering with the engines running. They tend to work by filtering tiny amounts of fluid through an orifice, for long times.
Uggers said:
Spent 15 mins finding the info and then see the post is properly old.
Oh well for any others using the power of Google this may help. We use Cardev filters on our Subsea ROV hydraulic systems. We find them absolutely brilliant and save vast amounts of water contaminated oil having to be ditched to flush the system.
Far as I can see you can get diesel filters to remove water too. Have it tee'd off after the fuel take offs and back into the return to tank. This is if sitting for long periods, install a solar operated pump prior to the filter. Have shut off valves either side to enable changing of the filter which is a 5 minutes job.
You can tee off after the engine fuel pumps but this is only then filtering with the engines running. They tend to work by filtering tiny amounts of fluid through an orifice, for long times.
I also found this thread and it was really old that's why I have added new links to make sure is still a genuine page with relevant information. Hope it helps others like us who visit this page and search for the diesel bug treatment.Oh well for any others using the power of Google this may help. We use Cardev filters on our Subsea ROV hydraulic systems. We find them absolutely brilliant and save vast amounts of water contaminated oil having to be ditched to flush the system.
Far as I can see you can get diesel filters to remove water too. Have it tee'd off after the fuel take offs and back into the return to tank. This is if sitting for long periods, install a solar operated pump prior to the filter. Have shut off valves either side to enable changing of the filter which is a 5 minutes job.
You can tee off after the engine fuel pumps but this is only then filtering with the engines running. They tend to work by filtering tiny amounts of fluid through an orifice, for long times.
rolster said:
I would suggest polishing the fuel in your tanks every couple of months or so, especially if the boat is not used much and you have large tanks, with the fuel just sat in there for long periods of time. Boats which are used regularly and the fuel tanks replenished often should not be effected so much.
Marine 16 do a polishing kit as well, called the Diesel Duck. http://www.marine16.co.uk/acatalog/Diesel-Duck-.ht...
My marina just sent me this link, which seems very comprehensive: https://www.pbo.co.uk/gear/12-diesel-bug-treatment...
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