New Lunar Probe - Grail

[Eric Mc]

Scheduled for launch around 1.00 pm (BST) Thursday, this one looks intteresing. The flight path to the moon is plain weird -

http://spaceflightnow.com/

[Hooli]

That is a bizarre flight path, but it does make sense reading it.

[Eric Mc]

Yes, no rush, just take your time and allow any trapped gases in the probe structure to vent so that by the time you get to lunar orbit the probe will not send back any false indications of gravitational anomalies.

Very clever.

[jmorgan]

Ah, was going to post this. Looking to see if the new LRO apollo images are out yet and saw this.


(OT Edit http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2011/sep/HQ_M11-18...

Edited by jmorgan on Tuesday 6th September 16:09

[Eric Mc]

And some new higher definition LRO shots of the Apollo 12 and Apollo 17 landing sites -

[Hooli]

So the landings weren't faked in a studio then?

[eharding]

Hooli said:

So the landings weren't faked in a studio then?

The Apollo conspiracy nut-jobs will probably argue that NASA went back to the moon in secret during the 1970s to plant evidence to cover up the fact they didn't get there in the late 1960s.

[jmorgan]

They are good. I know the nut jobs will not accept anything they did not cook up so not going there in this thread... opps.

The one with the before and after slider is an excellent application.

Sorry, OT.

[Eric Mc]

eharding said:

The Apollo conspiracy nut-jobs will probably argue that NASA went back to the moon in secret during the 1970s to plant evidence to cover up the fact they didn't get there in the late 1960s.

The last landing was in December 1972. There were more landings in the 1970s than in the 1960s (2 in 1969 - 4 in 1971 and 72). The final Apollo mission (Apollo-Soyuz) was in 1975.

[Simpo Two]

Those photos were shown on TV news yeasterday. They actually said they would help disprove the conspiracy theorists, and also said that the landing stages were in remarkably good condition - how they saw that I'm not sure.

But yes, the loonies will say 'Photoshop'.

[Eric Mc]

The descent stages certainly have retained their thermal protection. You can see the difference in colours between the gold reflective covering and the black painted heat shielding. You can also see the footpads.

[Stig]

Simpo Two said:

Those photos were shown on TV news yeasterday. They actually said they would help disprove the conspiracy theorists, and also said that the landing stages were in remarkably good condition - how they saw that I'm not sure.

But yes, the loonies will say 'Photoshop'.

Who's to say that the photos they have released are the highest resolution ones available?

[Hooli]

Eric Mc said:

The descent stages certainly have retained their thermal protection. You can see the difference in colours between the gold reflective covering and the black painted heat shielding. You can also see the footpads.

Except for meteorite strikes there isn't much there to tarnish them is there? I guess most of the damage would have been from the ascent module lifting off.

[Eric Mc]

Temperature effects will probably wear out the artefacts faster. These objects have been undergoing a 300 degree C change of temperature every 14 days for over 40 years in some cases. There will have been residual volatiles in some of the tanks in the descent module and the cast off back packs which will have leaked, frozen and boiled at various times in that period too. But, I am sure the main structures will remain intact for many, many years - unless disturbed by humans, of course.

As for the quality of the images, I am pretty sure these are the best ones that will have been taken so far. The LRO has just dropped down to an orbital altitude of 25 miles (extremely low) which has allowed better resolution shots compared to the initial shots taken in 2009.
The technical specs of the LRO cameras have been in the public domain from the beginning of the programme so anyone with knowledge of lens resolution and the capability of the cameras digital processing system would be able to ascertain the quality of the images possible from a 25 mile altitude.

[jmorgan]

Good stuff either way but now with GRAIL its good to see some effort paid to our nearest celestial body even if it is a small effort.

I believe there was concern over the effects of some of the magnetic anomalies for the landings. Three missions deployed subsatellites with a similar intent says the net? I thought it was one mission. Be good to see what this new one turns up.

[Eric Mc]

jmorgan said:

Good stuff either way but now with GRAIL its good to see some effort paid to our nearest celestial body even if it is a small effort.

I believe there was concern over the effects of some of the magnetic anomalies for the landings. Three missions deployed subsatellites with a similar intent says the net? I thought it was one mission. Be good to see what this new one turns up.

I don't think the moon has any significant magnetic field. What was discovered in the 1960s were major GRAVITATIONAL anomalies which were put down to Mass Concentrations (MASCONS) under the Lunar Mare.

All the Apollo J Series missions (15, 16 and 17) released small sub-satellites from the Service Module Sim Bay.

[jmorgan]

Eric Mc said:

I don't think the moon has any significant magnetic field. What was discovered in the 1960s were major GRAVITATIONAL anomalies which were put down to Mass Concentrations (MASCONS) under the Lunar Mare.

Yeah, I know, I thought I read the anomalies were an unknown until they got there and landed.

Anyway, Mascons, that was the word I was looking for.

[Eric Mc]

I remember them being discussed DURING the landing mission. They were mainly picked up by the unmanned Lunar Orbiter series between 1966 and 1968.
It was because of the data sent back by the Orbiters, that the Apollo J missions were fitted out with the Science Imstrument Bay and the Sub-Satellites which allowed the MASCONS to be examined in more detail.

GRAIL looks like it will provide more information still.

[Hooli]

Eric Mc said:

Temperature effects will probably wear out the artefacts faster. These objects have been undergoing a 300 degree C change of temperature every 14 days for over 40 years in some cases. There will have been residual volatiles in some of the tanks in the descent module and the cast off back packs which will have leaked, frozen and boiled at various times in that period too. But, I am sure the main structures will remain intact for many, many years - unless disturbed by humans, of course.

I hadn't thought of temp changes, very good point Eric.

[Eric Mc]

Controlling the temperatures within spacecraft and satellites in space is a real headache for the designers and engineers. When a spcecraft is in orbit or transiting between the earth and the moon or other planets, the side facing the sun is being fried and the side away from the sun is being frozen. All sorts of tricks and techniques are used to try and protect the innards.

The Apollo spacecraft going to and from the moon rotated so that all sides were heated and cooled equally. It was referred to as "Barbeque Mode".