could anyone land a jumbo jet
Discussion
Are you refering to specifically to the Boeing 747-100/200, the original "Jumbo Jet" and the type which featured in most of these types of films, or are you referring to more modern "Jumbos" such as the 747-400 or even all the various wide bodied airliners which appeared after the original 747s first came out.
They are all very different with widely varying control and in flight management systems - some being more computer based than others.
They are all very different with widely varying control and in flight management systems - some being more computer based than others.
There will be a world of difference between the control systems on (say) an Airbus A380 and a 747-100.
If you know what buttons to press and switches to set, I am sure an A380 would probably fly itself quite safely down to a perfect landing on a decent runway at a properly equipped airport. A 747-100 would not be able to do that as the technology for full automatic flight control was in its infancy when that aircraft was designed (1966 to 1968).
If you know what buttons to press and switches to set, I am sure an A380 would probably fly itself quite safely down to a perfect landing on a decent runway at a properly equipped airport. A 747-100 would not be able to do that as the technology for full automatic flight control was in its infancy when that aircraft was designed (1966 to 1968).
If the airfield has a Cat 3 ILS and the a/c has full axis autopilot including auto-throttles and auto-land, and a long 'straight in' approach is set up nice and early, then I reckon it's probably do-able just. However, even if you got it down you'd probably have a runway departure at the very least. Even then, it could go horribly wrong, an RAF crew virtually wrote a Tristar off doing a (badly set up) auto-ILS back in 1985.
As an example of the difficulties involved, the Dominie (which is neither a large nor heavy a/c) operated with a single pilot. To this end, the right hand seat would be occupied by a 'Pilot's Assistant' to do things like fuel management, cabin conditioning and pressurisation, as well as operating the airframe de-ice timer.
In case of pilot incapacity, the PAs (who could be Navs, Flight Engineers, or AEOps - ie experienced aircrew in their own right, and who were all Instructors in respective fields) were taught to land the a/c off an ILS autopilot-coupled approach (to a 9000ft+ R/W). This was done with APPROACH flap (no auto-throttle) and a Decision Height of 200' (Cat 1 ILS). In other words, at 200' the autopilot was disengaged and the PA would 'drive' the a/c onto the runway in a sort of controlled 'arrival'.
To do this a PA would do a CONVEX course of some 20 or so hours with a Standards Sqn QFI before getting their 'ticket'. There would then be regular Continuation Traing (hour or so per month). Despite this the 'landings' for most of them were 'interesting' to say the least.
For real it would have worked although there may have been damage to the a/c.
So, could an untrained person do the same? Very unlikely.
A ride in a Flight Simulator, or playing Microsoft Flight Sim is no substitute for training and experience.
As an example of the difficulties involved, the Dominie (which is neither a large nor heavy a/c) operated with a single pilot. To this end, the right hand seat would be occupied by a 'Pilot's Assistant' to do things like fuel management, cabin conditioning and pressurisation, as well as operating the airframe de-ice timer.
In case of pilot incapacity, the PAs (who could be Navs, Flight Engineers, or AEOps - ie experienced aircrew in their own right, and who were all Instructors in respective fields) were taught to land the a/c off an ILS autopilot-coupled approach (to a 9000ft+ R/W). This was done with APPROACH flap (no auto-throttle) and a Decision Height of 200' (Cat 1 ILS). In other words, at 200' the autopilot was disengaged and the PA would 'drive' the a/c onto the runway in a sort of controlled 'arrival'.
To do this a PA would do a CONVEX course of some 20 or so hours with a Standards Sqn QFI before getting their 'ticket'. There would then be regular Continuation Traing (hour or so per month). Despite this the 'landings' for most of them were 'interesting' to say the least.
For real it would have worked although there may have been damage to the a/c.
So, could an untrained person do the same? Very unlikely.
A ride in a Flight Simulator, or playing Microsoft Flight Sim is no substitute for training and experience.
There was a thread (quite heated IIRC) on PPRuNe about this, or something similar - could a PPL with some MS Flight Simulator experience land a 744. There are some major differences between the simulator and real life aircraft, such as (IIRC) a pitch up on AP disconnect amongst others.
I think that the gist was that there would have to be so many things go wrong to end up in that situation, and then so many things go right to end up with a happy conclusion that i is not really worth worrying about.
I think that the gist was that there would have to be so many things go wrong to end up in that situation, and then so many things go right to end up with a happy conclusion that i is not really worth worrying about.
Eric Mc said:
Max_Torque said:
How many pieces does it have to be left in to class as a "landing"??? 
Rate this landing then - 
(ok, might need a bit of parcel tape to stick a few bits back together, and it might be a bit draughty back in cattle class now, but hey, you can't have everything in life always right you know
)LimaDelta said:
There was a thread (quite heated IIRC) on PPRuNe about this, or something similar - could a PPL with some MS Flight Simulator experience land a 744.
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Don't know about you guys but I'd have thought landing a large, mid 80's Volvo saloon would be fairly straightforward.......
Without autoland I reckon the aircraft would get well away from an un-trained pilot. Unless it was in a stabilised, landing configured approach
wouldn't give them much chance. Jet engine's don't respond like piston engine's either, which is what, I'd guess they'd be used too. Also
depends how long the runway is :-))
wouldn't give them much chance. Jet engine's don't respond like piston engine's either, which is what, I'd guess they'd be used too. Also
depends how long the runway is :-))
The Hypno-Toad said:
Mythbusters did this one. Basically if you've got an experienced pilot talking you down from the control tower, its do-able. If you're just doing it on your own virtually no chance.
That was a little bit suspect. The Controller was sat behind them watching the instruments and giving inputs that you couldn't give from the control tower. I believe that you could give the sequence of buttons to press given appropriate time (fuel). But, it would be so easy to get the aircraft configuration and autopilot modes wrong, even with a long final approach, that I wouldn't fancy the chances very much.
Things would still happen too quickly for inexperienced people and missing one or two items would most likely be catastrophic.
Just quickly and no cheating...where are the brakes? No answers from pilots!!
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