Motor boat syndicate advice / costs
Discussion
Hi, looking for advice from those of you experienced in Motor Boat/yacht ownership or operating.
Myself and some colleauges (6 in total) are considering a shared ownership of a motor boat in Spain, most likely the Balerics.
Our idea is each to put in around £25K giving us an intial bugdet of £150K for purchase, survey etc. We then intend to put 20% - £5K each 30k total per annumn, for annual costs such as moorage, insurance, maintenance, repairs, storage, hull cleaning etc. All fuel/water etc would be down to inividual share holder during their usage.
We have been looking at boats like a Fairline Targa 44 (2000) which seem to be coming in for around £120-130K, the surplas would be put in a slush fund for repairs etc from the initial £150k.
What would we realistically expect to pay for annual costs?
A quick google would suggest that a mooring in Majorca would cost between 12-15k per annum, Insurance between 1-2K. Maintenance , dont know?? Lift out /winter storage/hull clean? general consumables/ wear and tear???
Can anyone give me a rough idea of what we would expect to pay for the annual up keep of such a boat?
We all have marine experience, just not in the pleasure boat world, and could do the majority of technical/service/repair stuff ourselves, or would this be a flase economy when coming to sell without an auditable history?
Thanks
Myself and some colleauges (6 in total) are considering a shared ownership of a motor boat in Spain, most likely the Balerics.
Our idea is each to put in around £25K giving us an intial bugdet of £150K for purchase, survey etc. We then intend to put 20% - £5K each 30k total per annumn, for annual costs such as moorage, insurance, maintenance, repairs, storage, hull cleaning etc. All fuel/water etc would be down to inividual share holder during their usage.
We have been looking at boats like a Fairline Targa 44 (2000) which seem to be coming in for around £120-130K, the surplas would be put in a slush fund for repairs etc from the initial £150k.
What would we realistically expect to pay for annual costs?
A quick google would suggest that a mooring in Majorca would cost between 12-15k per annum, Insurance between 1-2K. Maintenance , dont know?? Lift out /winter storage/hull clean? general consumables/ wear and tear???
Can anyone give me a rough idea of what we would expect to pay for the annual up keep of such a boat?
We all have marine experience, just not in the pleasure boat world, and could do the majority of technical/service/repair stuff ourselves, or would this be a flase economy when coming to sell without an auditable history?
Thanks
If you are thinking of the Balearics it will save you money on berthing if you have a boat that will fit into a 12 metre berth. In Ibiza for example a 12m mooring will cost you around 10k euros plus water and electric from a private owner. Servicing costs are up to you depending how much you want to do yourself and if you want things like machine polishing etc.. The sun is harsh over there and takes its toll on covers etc so they will need replacing every few years too. Expect a lift out mid season to scrub the hull as you will lose a lot of speed and get poorer fuel consumption due to fouling. Probably going to cost you anything from 5-10k euros a season in servicing etc. Fuel isn't going to be a big issue unless you're doing a lot of hours and is currently around £1.05 a litre.
Boat? Fairlines are good but do have a look at the Cranchi Endurance 39 too - great boat and very sensible money. If you are going to sleep on the boat aircon is a big plus.
Balearics are fantastic for boating although we prefer Ibiza to Mallorca as having Formentera so close is such a big bonus
Boat? Fairlines are good but do have a look at the Cranchi Endurance 39 too - great boat and very sensible money. If you are going to sleep on the boat aircon is a big plus.
Balearics are fantastic for boating although we prefer Ibiza to Mallorca as having Formentera so close is such a big bonus
Peralta -
Thanks for the info. I noticed that berth costs do seem to go a bit expedential over 12m, and this will have an effect on what we go for. We had though Majorca was a good central point, however again I am open to advice. The mainland marinas do seem cheaper again, but for day sailing I would suspect that the islands give you better options? Is there value in buying a mooring, if we intend to keep the syndicate going for 3-5 years? I have seen some 12m berths going for around 60K, so it would seem to make sense, although its obviously a greater initial outlay.
From your advice, I guess our estimation of around 20% annual operating costs is not going to be too far off the mark.
I have seen some of the Cranchi boats, very nice too. We have not even narrowed down our choices yet so this is good info. Any further suggestions welcomed!
Simpo Two -
Thanks I will try searching for Motorvators post, but as you can see, my IT skills are not the best with my double posting!!
Thanks for the info. I noticed that berth costs do seem to go a bit expedential over 12m, and this will have an effect on what we go for. We had though Majorca was a good central point, however again I am open to advice. The mainland marinas do seem cheaper again, but for day sailing I would suspect that the islands give you better options? Is there value in buying a mooring, if we intend to keep the syndicate going for 3-5 years? I have seen some 12m berths going for around 60K, so it would seem to make sense, although its obviously a greater initial outlay.
From your advice, I guess our estimation of around 20% annual operating costs is not going to be too far off the mark.
I have seen some of the Cranchi boats, very nice too. We have not even narrowed down our choices yet so this is good info. Any further suggestions welcomed!
Simpo Two -
Thanks I will try searching for Motorvators post, but as you can see, my IT skills are not the best with my double posting!!
A mate has a Sunseeker Superhawk 48 in a small mainland marina between Malaga (cheap flights) and Gib (cheap fuel) and pays about £6kpa. He went and visited a few in person before moving the boat there - and haggled.
His is a 94 I think and is up for sale, they seem to go from 100-150k. Three engines+drives and only 1 cabin, that's why they appear to be good value for the size.
Of course, he's moving to something with more accommodation so that they can actually comfortably stay on the thing when they visit!
His is a 94 I think and is up for sale, they seem to go from 100-150k. Three engines+drives and only 1 cabin, that's why they appear to be good value for the size.
Of course, he's moving to something with more accommodation so that they can actually comfortably stay on the thing when they visit!
Used to own a Phantom 46 with my business partner.
Annual costs we worked on were:
Insurance £2000
Engines/gennny Rib service £2000
Annual lift/clean £1000
South Coast Mooring £12000 (MDL)
Chart updates, liferaft service flares etc £250
We were paying about 35p a litre at the time and used to get about 1nm to the gallon LOL
We used to do a fair bit of "tinkering" ourselves which save some cash. The boat was cleaned by professionals when we used it, so was pull up, pack up and
clear off home. This cost £75 but IMHO was worth every penny.
They are expensive bits of kit, but I miss ours dreadfully...
ETA We were looking at moving her to Croatia just before we were made an offer we couldn't refuse for her. This would have approximately halved the berthing fees.
Annual costs we worked on were:
Insurance £2000
Engines/gennny Rib service £2000
Annual lift/clean £1000
South Coast Mooring £12000 (MDL)
Chart updates, liferaft service flares etc £250
We were paying about 35p a litre at the time and used to get about 1nm to the gallon LOL
We used to do a fair bit of "tinkering" ourselves which save some cash. The boat was cleaned by professionals when we used it, so was pull up, pack up and
clear off home. This cost £75 but IMHO was worth every penny.
They are expensive bits of kit, but I miss ours dreadfully...
ETA We were looking at moving her to Croatia just before we were made an offer we couldn't refuse for her. This would have approximately halved the berthing fees.
Simpo Two]small]though I think they were rather high because he managed to set fire to something...[/small said:
A lesson in not trusting a Frenchman to do any work on your boat. Do an exhaust clamp up too far down the pipe and thank your lucky stars the fuses do their job and you don't end taking to the life raft due to a lack of cooling down the pipe.
For myself and son it cost us a weeks work and about £5k in battery cables, 32 amp shore supply, new 8" exhaust, 30 amp charger, 12v dropper and about a hundredweight of multi coloured cable, trunking and sundry items.
I'm still working through changIng 2 grands worth of batteries as they come up with the inevitable Internal shorts from the drastic discharge.
Probably about £20k if you were paying a yard.
In a year where she has had the full bottom treatment and a gearbox rebuild.
I knew what I was buying into when buying her in marseille a couple of years ago including the fact that i will be into a full rebuild on one engine within the next 200 hours. so nothing has surprised me so far.
So for the op be aware that your meagre fighting fund can be gone in a moment with older boats particularly if you don't know what you're buying.
My advice has always been been buy one that needs a load of work doing cheap enough to have the work done. Then you know what you're dealing with. Shiny Gelcoat isn't always the best buy.
Posted from the iPhone as I am currently at anchor enjoying the summer at last.
My dear old Dad always told me "Son, a pound of your own is worth two of anyone else's"
How often have you looked back at your Dad's advice, and realised how right he was ?
I had a half share in a 44ft offshore poerboat with my Brother-in-Law.
Now I know what a complete a
hole he is!
6 sounds like a nightmare to me.
ETA actually he's not my brother-in-law anymore thank goodness! He did one on his wife and two kids. I wish I could have helped him carry his bags to the airport.
How often have you looked back at your Dad's advice, and realised how right he was ?
I had a half share in a 44ft offshore poerboat with my Brother-in-Law.
Now I know what a complete a
hole he is!6 sounds like a nightmare to me.
ETA actually he's not my brother-in-law anymore thank goodness! He did one on his wife and two kids. I wish I could have helped him carry his bags to the airport.
Edited by mickrick on Monday 23 July 19:55
mickrick said:
Now I know what a complete ahole he is!
6 sounds like a nightmare to me.
That is actually a very good point - owning any boat is a big responsibility, far more than a car. It would be a shame if any one of those six let the side down either by maltreatment, neglect or finance - so choose them wisely. I would only let VERY trusted friends with some boat handling experience loose on my boat without me - and that's in only 6" of calm water!hole he is!6 sounds like a nightmare to me.
Thanks for the replies guys..
Mickrick - unfortunatley if I want anything more that a RIB, I need to bring in partners (although I'd love to be the sole owner). The guys involved are all work mates, we all come from technical backgrounds (oil and gas) and hopefully all have a level of personal integrety to not let the group down but I see what your saying! Even going 50/50 on my Florida villa with my best mate leads to small issues at times.
Motovator - sound advice, and I guess a trap a lot fall into by buying the shiniest boat in their budget. As mentioned above, we are a technical group (I even spent 10 years at sea as a marine engineer) but time restraints due to work commitments may be the stumbling block on doing a lot of work ourselves.
Mr Loudly - Croatia certainley appeals to me, I have been to Split and Dubrovnik, but believe the whole coast is littered with beautiful inlets. Its maybe just the issue of getting there, over Spain that would be a stumbling block. In the group we have guys living in the UK, Spain and Ireland.
Richardxjr - sounds good, but think the 1 cabin would be no use for our needs...I will do some homework on the model.
Mickrick - unfortunatley if I want anything more that a RIB, I need to bring in partners (although I'd love to be the sole owner). The guys involved are all work mates, we all come from technical backgrounds (oil and gas) and hopefully all have a level of personal integrety to not let the group down but I see what your saying! Even going 50/50 on my Florida villa with my best mate leads to small issues at times.
Motovator - sound advice, and I guess a trap a lot fall into by buying the shiniest boat in their budget. As mentioned above, we are a technical group (I even spent 10 years at sea as a marine engineer) but time restraints due to work commitments may be the stumbling block on doing a lot of work ourselves.
Mr Loudly - Croatia certainley appeals to me, I have been to Split and Dubrovnik, but believe the whole coast is littered with beautiful inlets. Its maybe just the issue of getting there, over Spain that would be a stumbling block. In the group we have guys living in the UK, Spain and Ireland.
Richardxjr - sounds good, but think the 1 cabin would be no use for our needs...I will do some homework on the model.
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