Running costs for a used boat. Help please :)
Discussion
I am looking to get myself a boat. I am hoping to get this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sunseeker-Camargue-55-Ya... all things being correct.
So, with no knowledge of boats or boating what do I need to do, how much do I need to run it, and what is the best way forward.
I am not going to complain if anyone gives me the most simplistic of assistance as I need to learn everything from the ground up. I will want to do some form of navigational course, also I will have lessons in manouvering and berthing.
Any help greatly appreciated. I think I will try to keep her in Eastbourne for the first few years, maybe moving her to Corfu later on.
So, with no knowledge of boats or boating what do I need to do, how much do I need to run it, and what is the best way forward.
I am not going to complain if anyone gives me the most simplistic of assistance as I need to learn everything from the ground up. I will want to do some form of navigational course, also I will have lessons in manouvering and berthing.
Any help greatly appreciated. I think I will try to keep her in Eastbourne for the first few years, maybe moving her to Corfu later on.
That's round the corner from me looking at the photos.
Berthing - anywhere from £6-£12k depending in the marina
Annual servicing - £2-4k including lift outs and anti fouling.
That and fuel will be your main costs.
You should probably do a day skipper practical and theory course but, at a minimum, do your powerboat qualification on your own boat if possible or at least a days instruction on your boat if the course is on the trailning companies boat.
Also get your VHF license too.
Been a while since I did my day skipper and power boating qualifications - look at the RYA website for local training schools.
Berthing - anywhere from £6-£12k depending in the marina
Annual servicing - £2-4k including lift outs and anti fouling.
That and fuel will be your main costs.
You should probably do a day skipper practical and theory course but, at a minimum, do your powerboat qualification on your own boat if possible or at least a days instruction on your boat if the course is on the trailning companies boat.
Also get your VHF license too.
Been a while since I did my day skipper and power boating qualifications - look at the RYA website for local training schools.
I have a quote for Eastbourne at £5k which sounds ok.
Would it be possible to advise, on a normal day out, pottering about for a couple of hours with half hour or so flying what kind of fuel would I be using?
If its a couple of hundren pound I wont cry, but if we are talking emptying the tank I'd rather know now rather than day two of my new toy!
My rough guess for fuel consumption would be somewhere between 250 and 350 liters per hour at cruising speed. Its a pretty sizable boat and has powerful engines so I wouldn't count on anything less than 250. Of course if you're just pottering about consumption will be much lower.
On top of annual servicing will be general maintenance costs. The sea is a pretty harsh environments and if regular attention isn't paid, the boat's condition will deteriorate quickly. Also, things break on boats - all the time.
Definitely do a few RYA courses. Boating is not as straightforward as many think. You'll also want plenty of practice on something smaller, possibly a RIB, to get the hang of things.
The boat looks in great nick, best of luck.
On top of annual servicing will be general maintenance costs. The sea is a pretty harsh environments and if regular attention isn't paid, the boat's condition will deteriorate quickly. Also, things break on boats - all the time.
Definitely do a few RYA courses. Boating is not as straightforward as many think. You'll also want plenty of practice on something smaller, possibly a RIB, to get the hang of things.
The boat looks in great nick, best of luck.
Simpo Two said:
Motorvator is the man for this; he has a Camargue (but a bit shorter).
Looks nice (the boat not Motorvator)
I reckon you are looking at £15k a year to run that all in, 10% of value as a benchmark used to be the case, but I think its more than that now, I spend £6k a year running a £30k and 28ft boat.Looks nice (the boat not Motorvator)
Huntsman said:
I reckon you are looking at £15k a year to run that all in, 10% of value as a benchmark used to be the case, but I think its more than that now, I spend £6k a year running a £30k and 28ft boat.
I'm doing well then - mine is £60K and 27' and costs about £1500 all in (marina, licence, insurance, fuel). But that's a river cruiser not an offshore speed jobbie.As noted above, that is a massive boat and will be a handful to handle, even with bow thrusters. Do you have anybody to 'crew' it for you? I mean friends and family, not payed crew, as you will have your work cut out piloting that thing solo.
It does look very nice, and a good price too, but I'd always choose sticks and rags over horsepower when it comes to the water.
It does look very nice, and a good price too, but I'd always choose sticks and rags over horsepower when it comes to the water.
Firstly I'd say way too big for a first boat, I skipper and train people for a living and buying too big is always the problem.
It will take a day to clean it properly for a start.
The Detroit diesels are ok but very old tech, tend to be smoky starters and very thirsty compared to more modern engines. Having driven them on charters you're looking at 400 litres an hour at speed which is the whole point of the boat and 100 litres an hour at displacement speeds (about 9 knots).
You'll be lucky all in to run it for less than:-
£3-4k a year for lift, anti foul and anodes, that's guessing you're not going to spend three days getting messy and masking,
£4-5k servicing, engines about £1.5k each as they need valves done regularly to cut the smoking and injectors reset as they are old school, plus gen set and gearbox services.
££££ cockpit covers are over £3k and don't last many years, everything on a boat breaks at some stage and at that age water pumps, toilets systems and a whole range of other bits will randomly fail, if you can't fix it yourself easily a grand here and grand there.
Insurance is going to be around £2k for decent policy if you want them to pay out.
I'd be surprised if you end up with costs including moorings at less than £20-25k a year, easily more if you have a problem. engines are old if one grenades you might have to replace the pair and that will most likely mean gearboxes as modern engines rev higher. that would cost more than the boat is currently up for and they are old engines living in the salt at the end of the day, could go for another 20 years but you cant be sure.
If you keep it all up together properly as things like retirms, painting, window seals etc eat money and then fuel on top. If you're not going to do at least 100 hours a year the engines will suffer and the whole thing becomes pointless. That's about 15-20k litres of fuel!
Not trying to put you off just trying to give you a clear view of prices and why big boats are so cheap at the moment.
A good 35 footer could be bought still with warranty, use less than 25% of the fuel and servicing is much cheaper and I honestly believe you'll have more fun rather than being nervous due to the size moving it about in tight spaces.
Take some time out and go see Dan for a few hours and get feel for what's really their. Most new 40 footers have as much accom as the old boat.
It will take a day to clean it properly for a start.
The Detroit diesels are ok but very old tech, tend to be smoky starters and very thirsty compared to more modern engines. Having driven them on charters you're looking at 400 litres an hour at speed which is the whole point of the boat and 100 litres an hour at displacement speeds (about 9 knots).
You'll be lucky all in to run it for less than:-
£3-4k a year for lift, anti foul and anodes, that's guessing you're not going to spend three days getting messy and masking,
£4-5k servicing, engines about £1.5k each as they need valves done regularly to cut the smoking and injectors reset as they are old school, plus gen set and gearbox services.
££££ cockpit covers are over £3k and don't last many years, everything on a boat breaks at some stage and at that age water pumps, toilets systems and a whole range of other bits will randomly fail, if you can't fix it yourself easily a grand here and grand there.
Insurance is going to be around £2k for decent policy if you want them to pay out.
I'd be surprised if you end up with costs including moorings at less than £20-25k a year, easily more if you have a problem. engines are old if one grenades you might have to replace the pair and that will most likely mean gearboxes as modern engines rev higher. that would cost more than the boat is currently up for and they are old engines living in the salt at the end of the day, could go for another 20 years but you cant be sure.
If you keep it all up together properly as things like retirms, painting, window seals etc eat money and then fuel on top. If you're not going to do at least 100 hours a year the engines will suffer and the whole thing becomes pointless. That's about 15-20k litres of fuel!
Not trying to put you off just trying to give you a clear view of prices and why big boats are so cheap at the moment.
A good 35 footer could be bought still with warranty, use less than 25% of the fuel and servicing is much cheaper and I honestly believe you'll have more fun rather than being nervous due to the size moving it about in tight spaces.
Take some time out and go see Dan for a few hours and get feel for what's really their. Most new 40 footers have as much accom as the old boat.
Edited by SpeedYellow on Tuesday 4th December 14:37
It turns out my fuel estimation was conservative. I would suggest something at least 5 years newer, as engines have become so much more efficient. I spent a lot of time last summer skippering a 45 foot Wally Tender - one of the first models, year 2004. That drank far less than 100 liters per hour at cruising speed, I suspect newer ones are even more efficient. Admittedly the engines were half the size, but it gives you an idea of how far marine diesels have come.
I didn't want to piss on your parade but as others have pointed out, 55 feet is HUGE for a first boat.
In case you haven't come across it yet: http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/ Its probably the most widely used boat classifieds
I didn't want to piss on your parade but as others have pointed out, 55 feet is HUGE for a first boat.
In case you haven't come across it yet: http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/ Its probably the most widely used boat classifieds
Simond S said:
I have a quote for Eastbourne at £5k which sounds ok.
Would it be possible to advise, on a normal day out, pottering about for a couple of hours with half hour or so flying what kind of fuel would I be using?
If its a couple of hundren pound I wont cry, but if we are talking emptying the tank I'd rather know now rather than day two of my new toy!
Eastbourne has a lock in/out which is a PITA, and tricky for a big boat. Cruising is restrictive, certainly compared to the Solent. To be honest, if you are worrying about fuel costs *at all* then you need to go in eyes wide open as the fuel you use will be the least of your costs, unless you are retired and plan to use the boat outside of the odd summer weekend when the weather's ok.Would it be possible to advise, on a normal day out, pottering about for a couple of hours with half hour or so flying what kind of fuel would I be using?
If its a couple of hundren pound I wont cry, but if we are talking emptying the tank I'd rather know now rather than day two of my new toy!
Friends of mine have a similar sized Sunseeker. After 4 years of crap weather here they shipped it down to southern Spain where they get far more use of it, but fuel is still one of the lesser expenses.
Thanks to all the replies, i was beginning to gain confidence until Speedyellow popped up. From the depth of your response it is apparent it isnt guesswork so i really appreciate your input.
To be honest, the thought of bills that high would put happy ownership out of my league.
I don't really know what I want, except that the interior of that boat looked bid enough to relax in, the main bedroom nice enough to stay a week and have mates use the other room with their own bathroom.
I am quite aware that none of my friends have boats, and that this could be a very expensive hobby for me for them to enjoy, but i still fancy one.
Heart ruling head for sure, but the first big bill would cripple me.
To be honest, the thought of bills that high would put happy ownership out of my league.
I don't really know what I want, except that the interior of that boat looked bid enough to relax in, the main bedroom nice enough to stay a week and have mates use the other room with their own bathroom.
I am quite aware that none of my friends have boats, and that this could be a very expensive hobby for me for them to enjoy, but i still fancy one.
Heart ruling head for sure, but the first big bill would cripple me.
SpeedYellow said:
The Detroit diesels are ok but very old tech, tend to be smoky starters and very thirsty compared to more modern engines. Having driven them on charters you're looking at 400 litres an hour at speed which is the whole point of the boat and 100 litres an hour at displacement speeds (about 9 knots).
You're thinking of the old 2-stroke D.D. motors, of which I've run many. These are the newer ones built in conjunction with MTU. They are stuffed full of electronics and a bit of a worry.All said, as a first boat, this Sunseeker is probably a bit big to learn on for a newbie.
Simond S said:
Heart ruling head for sure
It has to. There is no practical reason to own a boat unless you're a fisherman 
Purely visually I quite like these: www.linssenyachts.com/site_pub/index.php/en/new-st...
- but no doubt an expert will pop up to say they're rubbish!
Simpo Two said:
It has to. There is no practical reason to own a boat unless you're a fisherman
Purely visually I quite like these: www.linssenyachts.com/site_pub/index.php/en/new-st...
- but no doubt an expert will pop up to say they're rubbish!
I'll back you up on Linssens having delivered a couple amazingly over built boats will truly last forevePurely visually I quite like these: www.linssenyachts.com/site_pub/index.php/en/new-st...
- but no doubt an expert will pop up to say they're rubbish!
The whole, blah, blah, rent it line is a bit old in my view, having owned lots of boats and spent time with lots of owners there are lots of reasons to own your own boat and enjoy it. If you want a boat and can afford it there is something special about it actually being your own. The day I've sold them has always been a sad day not a happy one even when the new boat is arriving.
You could spend your life renting a house, car, TV etc but we don't all do that, same with boats.
Where to start?
Fish, they are 8V92TA and definitely 2 stroke. Generally the same as mine, 6V92TA, but with the added on DDEC.
Speedyellow is on the money but I would say over the top with the fuel use. Reckon on 275l/h tops at full chat.
As for smokey old tech, well actually I probably have the cleanest engines in the marina as I keep mine well serviced.
They are fairly bulletproof with one major exception and that is the tendancy toward overheat if the heat exchangers aren't maintained. Run them above optimum temperature and the wear rates go through the roof on the liners and pistons leaving a poorly performing engine from low compression, run them at severe overheat and you will crack a head. Speak to any Detroit engineer and he will give you examples of engines that have been abused beyond belief for many thousands of hours and still running just not well.
So they don't tend to go catastrophic and you should be able to rebuild for circa £15k a side.
On to whether it is the right buy for you?
I'd say maybe not the ideal first purchase if you have zero experience. If you do buy it can you please post passage plans so we can avoid you.
As for the three f's saying, well it tends to be stated by non boat owners and could equally be aimed at many a sport or pastime. Personally I have spunked ludicrous amounts of money in the last 40 years on my passion for the sea and have never considered renting as being a suitable solution.
I think for you though a bit of experience is seriously lacking as I am not sure you realise what a couple of hours pottering out of Eastbourne gets you.
Fish, they are 8V92TA and definitely 2 stroke. Generally the same as mine, 6V92TA, but with the added on DDEC.
Speedyellow is on the money but I would say over the top with the fuel use. Reckon on 275l/h tops at full chat.
As for smokey old tech, well actually I probably have the cleanest engines in the marina as I keep mine well serviced.
They are fairly bulletproof with one major exception and that is the tendancy toward overheat if the heat exchangers aren't maintained. Run them above optimum temperature and the wear rates go through the roof on the liners and pistons leaving a poorly performing engine from low compression, run them at severe overheat and you will crack a head. Speak to any Detroit engineer and he will give you examples of engines that have been abused beyond belief for many thousands of hours and still running just not well.
So they don't tend to go catastrophic and you should be able to rebuild for circa £15k a side.
On to whether it is the right buy for you?
I'd say maybe not the ideal first purchase if you have zero experience. If you do buy it can you please post passage plans so we can avoid you.
As for the three f's saying, well it tends to be stated by non boat owners and could equally be aimed at many a sport or pastime. Personally I have spunked ludicrous amounts of money in the last 40 years on my passion for the sea and have never considered renting as being a suitable solution.
I think for you though a bit of experience is seriously lacking as I am not sure you realise what a couple of hours pottering out of Eastbourne gets you.
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