Flying Lessons
Discussion
I was very fortunate to finally get a new job at the arse end of 2012. This has seen my salay increase by a small but noticeable amount. Coupled with the fact that my girlfriend will be working abroad soon for 6-12 months, man logic suggests that I will have more of my money to myself.
I have always been an aircraft/flying nut. Not in the vague sense either. My bookcase is full of books on everything from FW190 paint schemes, to the skies over Vietnam. When I was in school I wanted to be a pilot (who didn't, eh?). But I really wanted to be an RAF pilot. I was healthy, had good vision and good reactions. But my maths and science held me back. I'm not dumb in any sense, but I just wasn't the best at those subjects. Then my mother passed away and that threw me off the trail completely really (not looking for sympathy here, it's just relevant to the story). So I never had a fighting chance, looking back. I'm 25 now. I never did attain the grades to join the RAF.
I was gifted a flying lesson for my 18th birthday from my sister. That first flight in a C152 out of Southend was so joyous. I thought I would never fly, so to finally do it, words cannot explain how that felt. I was even allowed to fly the approach myself, and managed a very sensible touchdown. Unfortunately, a low income and living on my own has meant I haven't been able to afford any sort of flying activity since.
Now, I've looked into different types of flying, and they're all fairly expensive. I am now thinking about starting flying lessons towards my PPL.
What's holding me back is worries about my own intelligence (though i have a good grasp of navigation and physics) but also the worry that I will only be able to afford one lesson per month. I'd like to hear from any PPL holders or learners. Is one lesson per month just pointless? Should I wait until I can afford more?
I just want to be up in the air really.
I have always been an aircraft/flying nut. Not in the vague sense either. My bookcase is full of books on everything from FW190 paint schemes, to the skies over Vietnam. When I was in school I wanted to be a pilot (who didn't, eh?). But I really wanted to be an RAF pilot. I was healthy, had good vision and good reactions. But my maths and science held me back. I'm not dumb in any sense, but I just wasn't the best at those subjects. Then my mother passed away and that threw me off the trail completely really (not looking for sympathy here, it's just relevant to the story). So I never had a fighting chance, looking back. I'm 25 now. I never did attain the grades to join the RAF.
I was gifted a flying lesson for my 18th birthday from my sister. That first flight in a C152 out of Southend was so joyous. I thought I would never fly, so to finally do it, words cannot explain how that felt. I was even allowed to fly the approach myself, and managed a very sensible touchdown. Unfortunately, a low income and living on my own has meant I haven't been able to afford any sort of flying activity since.
Now, I've looked into different types of flying, and they're all fairly expensive. I am now thinking about starting flying lessons towards my PPL.
What's holding me back is worries about my own intelligence (though i have a good grasp of navigation and physics) but also the worry that I will only be able to afford one lesson per month. I'd like to hear from any PPL holders or learners. Is one lesson per month just pointless? Should I wait until I can afford more?
I just want to be up in the air really.
I wouldn't worry about the maths part of it, it's fairly basic at PPL level. When you first start learning the navigation parts it might blow your brains at first, but you'll soon get the hang of it. I struggle with complex maths and I managed fine.
Just doing one lesson a month is going to be hard as it would take you the best part of 4 years to complete your PPL and that's not taking into account the number of lessons that will get cancelled by bad weather (quite a few). It might be worth you waiting a while, saving up some cash and then doing the lessons more regularly, particularly in the earlier part of the course. You also want to try and cram as much learning into the summer months when you will have longer days and (hopefully) better weather. The other issue is that having such long gaps between lessons will mean more time will be spent re-familiarising yourself with things you learnt in previous lessons, which will extend the number of hours you have to do before you take your final GFT test.
You obviously have a passion for it which is great, but it might serve you well to hold off a little longer and then be able to complete the course in a shorter time. It might be worth you spending the mean time nailing the ground school parts of it (Air Law, Human performance etc etc) so you won't have to fit these in around your actual flying.
Just doing one lesson a month is going to be hard as it would take you the best part of 4 years to complete your PPL and that's not taking into account the number of lessons that will get cancelled by bad weather (quite a few). It might be worth you waiting a while, saving up some cash and then doing the lessons more regularly, particularly in the earlier part of the course. You also want to try and cram as much learning into the summer months when you will have longer days and (hopefully) better weather. The other issue is that having such long gaps between lessons will mean more time will be spent re-familiarising yourself with things you learnt in previous lessons, which will extend the number of hours you have to do before you take your final GFT test.
You obviously have a passion for it which is great, but it might serve you well to hold off a little longer and then be able to complete the course in a shorter time. It might be worth you spending the mean time nailing the ground school parts of it (Air Law, Human performance etc etc) so you won't have to fit these in around your actual flying.
Its great news your interested in flying again. I would say the best bet would be to save up and then embark on a course of flying. Trying to do it one hour a month is not going to work. You will spend most of the hour going over what you did in the last hour and it will take forever.
A few options for you though. How about a NPPL, its cheaper and the medical requirements are less. A full PPL but doing the training in the US, again its cheaper, although you will have to factor in the accommodation, and it will be completed quicker. Or take up gliding. Again cheaper, your 1 hour a month could be 2-3 hours gliding, and once your qualified the actual flying is cheaper than hiring a C152 at £150 an hour.
A few options for you though. How about a NPPL, its cheaper and the medical requirements are less. A full PPL but doing the training in the US, again its cheaper, although you will have to factor in the accommodation, and it will be completed quicker. Or take up gliding. Again cheaper, your 1 hour a month could be 2-3 hours gliding, and once your qualified the actual flying is cheaper than hiring a C152 at £150 an hour.
Really helpful, sensible replies, so thanks to you both. I hadn't looked at the NPPL before, but just had a quick look and it is attractive to someone like me. I would not be interested in flying abroad anyway (yet) or outside of daylight or in heavy weather. Is the NPPL later upgradeable to a PPL? I should also point out that my salary should be increasing once i've passed probation so that will affect how much time i spend in the air.
I like the idea of gliding, but don't like the lack of engine and the influence of the weather, especially in this country. I had looked at gliding before, as other people have recommended it and there's some beautiful videos out there. Maybe it's something i'll consider again. Gliding also seems to have a nice 'club' atmosphere.
I do agree it's a good idea to save money and do it all at once rather than bit by bit. I remember doing 1 driving lesson a week simply wasn't enough sometimes, as mistakes would often recur. But the desire to be in the air sooner rather than later is trying to take over. I really do have a passion for it, I only wish so much I could have done all of this earlier on. I have to try and supress this for now, and get some decent money under my belt.
Could you recommend any specific books to begin learning the theory side of things? My local waterstones never seem to have anything helpful. Would love to get stuck into all that, whilst saving the pennies.
Also, in what ways and how much is it cheaper to learn in the states? I have friends dotted around there which may be helpful.
I like the idea of gliding, but don't like the lack of engine and the influence of the weather, especially in this country. I had looked at gliding before, as other people have recommended it and there's some beautiful videos out there. Maybe it's something i'll consider again. Gliding also seems to have a nice 'club' atmosphere.
I do agree it's a good idea to save money and do it all at once rather than bit by bit. I remember doing 1 driving lesson a week simply wasn't enough sometimes, as mistakes would often recur. But the desire to be in the air sooner rather than later is trying to take over. I really do have a passion for it, I only wish so much I could have done all of this earlier on. I have to try and supress this for now, and get some decent money under my belt.
Could you recommend any specific books to begin learning the theory side of things? My local waterstones never seem to have anything helpful. Would love to get stuck into all that, whilst saving the pennies.
Also, in what ways and how much is it cheaper to learn in the states? I have friends dotted around there which may be helpful.
These books are the ones you need, you may be able to get them cheaper via amazon (just make sure they are the up to date ones) or even your local flying club.
http://www.afeonline.com/shop/index.php?cPath=416_...
If you haven't already i'd recommend popping into your local flying schools for a chat. They'll give you some good advice and you can get a feel for the instructors and which club might suit you best.
http://www.afeonline.com/shop/index.php?cPath=416_...
If you haven't already i'd recommend popping into your local flying schools for a chat. They'll give you some good advice and you can get a feel for the instructors and which club might suit you best.
danjama said:
Really helpful, sensible replies, so thanks to you both. I hadn't looked at the NPPL before, but just had a quick look and it is attractive to someone like me. I would not be interested in flying abroad anyway (yet) or outside of daylight or in heavy weather. Is the NPPL later upgradeable to a PPL? I should also point out that my salary should be increasing once i've passed probation so that will affect how much time i spend in the air.
I like the idea of gliding, but don't like the lack of engine and the influence of the weather, especially in this country. I had looked at gliding before, as other people have recommended it and there's some beautiful videos out there. Maybe it's something i'll consider again. Gliding also seems to have a nice 'club' atmosphere.
I do agree it's a good idea to save money and do it all at once rather than bit by bit. I remember doing 1 driving lesson a week simply wasn't enough sometimes, as mistakes would often recur. But the desire to be in the air sooner rather than later is trying to take over. I really do have a passion for it, I only wish so much I could have done all of this earlier on. I have to try and supress this for now, and get some decent money under my belt.
Could you recommend any specific books to begin learning the theory side of things? My local waterstones never seem to have anything helpful. Would love to get stuck into all that, whilst saving the pennies.
Also, in what ways and how much is it cheaper to learn in the states? I have friends dotted around there which may be helpful.
If all you are looking to do is bimble around in the UK then an NPPL may indeed be right for you. Not sure on the upgradeability of this to a full PPL but I'm sure someone will be along in a minute with the details. I like the idea of gliding, but don't like the lack of engine and the influence of the weather, especially in this country. I had looked at gliding before, as other people have recommended it and there's some beautiful videos out there. Maybe it's something i'll consider again. Gliding also seems to have a nice 'club' atmosphere.
I do agree it's a good idea to save money and do it all at once rather than bit by bit. I remember doing 1 driving lesson a week simply wasn't enough sometimes, as mistakes would often recur. But the desire to be in the air sooner rather than later is trying to take over. I really do have a passion for it, I only wish so much I could have done all of this earlier on. I have to try and supress this for now, and get some decent money under my belt.
Could you recommend any specific books to begin learning the theory side of things? My local waterstones never seem to have anything helpful. Would love to get stuck into all that, whilst saving the pennies.
Also, in what ways and how much is it cheaper to learn in the states? I have friends dotted around there which may be helpful.
If you are looking to get a full PPL however, I'd recommend getting your medical done before ploughing any money into lessons. You wouldn't want to get to the point where you are ready to solo and then be told by a doctor that you can't.
With regard to having a lesson a month, I'd recommend against this. From my experience, it was hard enough going 2 or sometimes 3 weeks between lessons either due to weather, schedule clashes and the fact I could only fly at weekends. The closer you can get your lessons together (within reason), the better IMO. Well worth saving up for beforehand and then block booking.
You'll also find that a lot of flying clubs offer discounts and/or free course material/flying equipment if you sign up up-front. Just be wary of the flying clubs going into administration - it has happened before and will unfortunately happen again in this day and age, and any money you have on deposit with the club at the time you will likely lose. Look for a setup which will allow you to pay a deposit on the full course fee (and therefore get the discounts etc.) and then top up your account as you go along - my club did this and worked out fine for me.
Gliding - I wouldn't completely rule it out until you've tried it. I had a go in a glider after I started my PPL and in retrospect think if I had tried it first, I maybe would have got a few BGA badges first. It really is a very serene and much cheaper way of getting up in the air...
Books - the Pooleys PPL guides are the ones I used and would recommend to anyone else. As mentioned though, you may get these thrown in at your club if they have such an offer going on. If not, then the Transair Pilot Shop (google it) will have everything you need to get started.
Learning in the States - I cannot speak from experience here, but you do seem to get mixed reviews. Some say it's a great way to do it quickly and cheaply, others will say you'll never get the same level of experience as you would flying in the UK's complicated airspace and predominantly s
t weather and it isn't actually that cheap either once you've factored in living costs. Horses for courses I guess.Ultimately, speak to as many people as you can who have done it and draw your own conclusions. It really is a great thing to do and I have loved every minute of being a PPL holder. Sadly for me (well, my wallet anyway) I am being sucked into the CPL black hole now too...
I'd echo what others have said about consolodating your lessons; so much of flying is muscle memory you'll make your life a lot easier if you have more regular lessons.
Have you thought about microlights/ultralights? I don't profess to know much about them, but a mate from work flys them in his spare time. I believe the licence takes fewer hours and the cost/performance ratio seems much better than you'd get from a C152/Pa28 etc. Saying that I havn't seen many flying clubs for microlights...
Don't sell yourself short on the RAF pilot thing as well. Trust me, they're not all genii, it's about as far removed from Top Gun as you can imagine!
Have you thought about microlights/ultralights? I don't profess to know much about them, but a mate from work flys them in his spare time. I believe the licence takes fewer hours and the cost/performance ratio seems much better than you'd get from a C152/Pa28 etc. Saying that I havn't seen many flying clubs for microlights...
Don't sell yourself short on the RAF pilot thing as well. Trust me, they're not all genii, it's about as far removed from Top Gun as you can imagine!
As for flying in the states:
http://www.naples-air-center.com/jaappl.html
Full course £5000 including ground school and exams
My local flying club:
45 hours flying at £150 per hour = £6750 NOT including ground school and exams.
Yes you can upgrade your NPPL to a full PPL.
http://www.naples-air-center.com/jaappl.html
Full course £5000 including ground school and exams
My local flying club:
45 hours flying at £150 per hour = £6750 NOT including ground school and exams.
Yes you can upgrade your NPPL to a full PPL.
danjama said:
I was very fortunate to finally get a new job at the arse end of 2012. This has seen my salay increase by a small but noticeable amount. Coupled with the fact that my girlfriend will be working abroad soon for 6-12 months, man logic suggests that I will have more of my money to myself.
I have always been an aircraft/flying nut. Not in the vague sense either. My bookcase is full of books on everything from FW190 paint schemes, to the skies over Vietnam. When I was in school I wanted to be a pilot (who didn't, eh?). But I really wanted to be an RAF pilot. I was healthy, had good vision and good reactions. But my maths and science held me back. I'm not dumb in any sense, but I just wasn't the best at those subjects. Then my mother passed away and that threw me off the trail completely really (not looking for sympathy here, it's just relevant to the story). So I never had a fighting chance, looking back. I'm 25 now. I never did attain the grades to join the RAF.
I was gifted a flying lesson for my 18th birthday from my sister. That first flight in a C152 out of Southend was so joyous. I thought I would never fly, so to finally do it, words cannot explain how that felt. I was even allowed to fly the approach myself, and managed a very sensible touchdown. Unfortunately, a low income and living on my own has meant I haven't been able to afford any sort of flying activity since.
Now, I've looked into different types of flying, and they're all fairly expensive. I am now thinking about starting flying lessons towards my PPL.
What's holding me back is worries about my own intelligence (though i have a good grasp of navigation and physics) but also the worry that I will only be able to afford one lesson per month. I'd like to hear from any PPL holders or learners. Is one lesson per month just pointless? Should I wait until I can afford more?
I just want to be up in the air really.
The above post could have been written by me.....I have always been an aircraft/flying nut. Not in the vague sense either. My bookcase is full of books on everything from FW190 paint schemes, to the skies over Vietnam. When I was in school I wanted to be a pilot (who didn't, eh?). But I really wanted to be an RAF pilot. I was healthy, had good vision and good reactions. But my maths and science held me back. I'm not dumb in any sense, but I just wasn't the best at those subjects. Then my mother passed away and that threw me off the trail completely really (not looking for sympathy here, it's just relevant to the story). So I never had a fighting chance, looking back. I'm 25 now. I never did attain the grades to join the RAF.
I was gifted a flying lesson for my 18th birthday from my sister. That first flight in a C152 out of Southend was so joyous. I thought I would never fly, so to finally do it, words cannot explain how that felt. I was even allowed to fly the approach myself, and managed a very sensible touchdown. Unfortunately, a low income and living on my own has meant I haven't been able to afford any sort of flying activity since.
Now, I've looked into different types of flying, and they're all fairly expensive. I am now thinking about starting flying lessons towards my PPL.
What's holding me back is worries about my own intelligence (though i have a good grasp of navigation and physics) but also the worry that I will only be able to afford one lesson per month. I'd like to hear from any PPL holders or learners. Is one lesson per month just pointless? Should I wait until I can afford more?
I just want to be up in the air really.
1st solo 1993............MASSSIVE GAP
NPPL (Full JAR PPL course just not the medical) obtained last year at age 40....keep the faith if you really want it you will do it :-)
TTwiggy said:
I must admit I know nothing about flying (I'm a boaty type), but I always thought that the biggest issue with holding a PPL was keeping up the necessary hours to maintain the licence?
Keeping your PPL current is not that much of a burden in terms of actual flying you have to do, I think the issue of PPLs lapsing is more about people losing the motivation to do it once they've taken the family sightseeing a few times and been for a few £100 burgers.Chucklehead said:
I'm working on my NPPL(M) at the moment and I wholeheartedly recommend it.
Cheaper to learn.
Cheaper to own.
This man speaks sense. Cheaper to learn.
Cheaper to own.
I fly from a fairly large training airfield with GA, helicopter, gyrocopter, flexwing and 3 axis microlight schools all on site. We see many folk who were initially interested in "learning to fly" and turned up at the GA school suddenly show a real interest in ditching that idea and head over to the microlight school when they see the modern 3 axis microlights and appreciate the cost difference in both training and running/ownership costs.
I've just started doing my PPL, initially I was going to have a lesson every two weeks and realised quickly that it wouldn't be good enough.
You can follow my exploits here - http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=...
I passed my Air Law exam last week and believe me when I say the last studying I did was for my driving licence 22 years ago and I found that a struggle! it's hard but I'm thoroughly enjoying it, by the way the exams are all multiple choice. I'm flying from Earls Colne so not a million miles from Southend.
Yesterday my FI and I were discussing going to France for my cross country flights!
Be aware that if you do the NPPL you cannot add other ratings such as Night, so you must be on the ground before sunset. With the PPL you can add the Night Rating as part of the 45 hour requirement, so in effect you get two licences for the price of one.
What I will say is be careful with your lesson budgets, a one hour lesson has sometime slipped into one hour 20 mins, you get charged for that and then add on a landing fee, so a quoted £147 per lesson soon turns into £190
Don't hesitate to PM me if you've any questions.
You can follow my exploits here - http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=...
I passed my Air Law exam last week and believe me when I say the last studying I did was for my driving licence 22 years ago and I found that a struggle! it's hard but I'm thoroughly enjoying it, by the way the exams are all multiple choice. I'm flying from Earls Colne so not a million miles from Southend.
Yesterday my FI and I were discussing going to France for my cross country flights!
Be aware that if you do the NPPL you cannot add other ratings such as Night, so you must be on the ground before sunset. With the PPL you can add the Night Rating as part of the 45 hour requirement, so in effect you get two licences for the price of one.
What I will say is be careful with your lesson budgets, a one hour lesson has sometime slipped into one hour 20 mins, you get charged for that and then add on a landing fee, so a quoted £147 per lesson soon turns into £190
Don't hesitate to PM me if you've any questions.
CharlieCrocodile said:
What I will say is be careful with your lesson budgets, a one hour lesson has sometime slipped into one hour 20 mins, you get charged for that and then add on a landing fee, so a quoted £147 per lesson soon turns into £190
It's certainly worth looking into properly. The rates at Headcorn vary per bhp of plane and all went down last year. Landing fee is included. Charges are 'brakes off to brakes on' so a two hour lesson which includes discussion and planning, debrief, checking the plane will usually only cost an hour.Sticks. said:
CharlieCrocodile said:
What I will say is be careful with your lesson budgets, a one hour lesson has sometime slipped into one hour 20 mins, you get charged for that and then add on a landing fee, so a quoted £147 per lesson soon turns into £190
It's certainly worth looking into properly. The rates at Headcorn vary per bhp of plane and all went down last year. Landing fee is included. Charges are 'brakes off to brakes on' so a two hour lesson which includes discussion and planning, debrief, checking the plane will usually only cost an hour.
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