P-40 kittyhawk found in desert, what's happened to it.
Discussion
I do hope it is crated up and hasn't been destroyed,
It's disgusting to think that if the pilot has been found that our goverment won't pay out and give him a decent burial with military honours.
Sounds typical of the goverment not to give a damn about our armed forces or heroes who have fought for this country.
It's disgusting to think that if the pilot has been found that our goverment won't pay out and give him a decent burial with military honours.
Sounds typical of the goverment not to give a damn about our armed forces or heroes who have fought for this country.
Vince70 said:
I do hope it is crated up and hasn't been destroyed,
It's disgusting to think that if the pilot has been found that our goverment won't pay out and give him a decent burial with military honours.
Sounds typical of the goverment not to give a damn about our armed forces or heroes who have fought for this country.
That's not the case - there are bones some distance away from the crash site and for technical reasons they can't identify them and therefore confirm they are definitely those of the pilot. Would be a bit embarrassing if we gathered them up, had a military funeral only to find out sometime later they belong to Mohammed Desert-Man!It's disgusting to think that if the pilot has been found that our goverment won't pay out and give him a decent burial with military honours.
Sounds typical of the goverment not to give a damn about our armed forces or heroes who have fought for this country.
Not a government not giving a damn at all.
There was an article about this in the times. Apparently the Egyptian authorities said there was no DNA recoverable on the bones. However, there is a team of pathology specialists on their way to Egypt to test the bones themselves.
Full article from The Times:
Relatives of an RAF pilot whose aircraft was found in the Sahara desert 70 years after it was reported missing are demanding that proper tests be carried out on human remains found near by.
Flight Sergeant Dennis Copping was on a routine flight in 1942, returning a P40 Kittyhawk fighter to an RAF base after repairs, when he got lost over the featureless desert and ran out of fuel. His perfectly preserved aircraft was found in the Western Desert, in Egypt, last year by an oil prospector.
A makeshift shelter close by, and signs of an attempt to repair the aircraft’s radio, suggested that the 24-year-old pilot had survived the crash and at some point had set off to look for help — never to be seen again.
Shortly after the discovery of the Kittyhawk, a team of Italian archaeologists found bones, along with scraps of a Second World War parachute, three miles from the crash site — but Flight-Sergeant Copping’s surviving relatives have been told that the Egyptian authorities have been unable to establish their identity.
His nephew, John Pryor-Bennett, was initially invited to fly to Egypt to supply a DNA sample, but was then told not to bother, as the bones no longer contained any DNA. However, that claim has been disputed by four forensic pathologists advising the family. They hope to travel to Cairo to examine the bones themselves, to give Mr Pryor-Bennett and his family a definitive answer.
Mr Pryor-Bennett, 62, from Kinsale, Co Cork, said: “I am appalled about how all of this has been handled. All the information that I have received since these bones were discovered last June has been misleading and vague.
“The people who found King Richard III were able to get a DNA sample from his bones, and they were over 600 years old. I can’t help feeling let down.”
Laurence Garey, an independent forensic anatomist who has worked at the University of Oxford and the University of Lausanne, disputed the claim that the bones were “too old” to contain DNA. “It is quite inconceivable and I cannot accept that it is true,” he said. “I have got DNA samples from bones far older than 70 years. DNA has been extracted from 60-million-year-old dinosaurs.”
Like its pilot, the Kittyhawk itself is reportedly missing once again in the desert. Its last known location was a storage container at El Alamein, scene of the 8th Army’s decisive victory over Rommel’s Afrika Korps.
The Royal Air Force Museum at Hendon, North London, has been in negotiations with the Egyptian authorities in an effort to have the aircraft returned to Britain.
Full article from The Times:
Relatives of an RAF pilot whose aircraft was found in the Sahara desert 70 years after it was reported missing are demanding that proper tests be carried out on human remains found near by.
Flight Sergeant Dennis Copping was on a routine flight in 1942, returning a P40 Kittyhawk fighter to an RAF base after repairs, when he got lost over the featureless desert and ran out of fuel. His perfectly preserved aircraft was found in the Western Desert, in Egypt, last year by an oil prospector.
A makeshift shelter close by, and signs of an attempt to repair the aircraft’s radio, suggested that the 24-year-old pilot had survived the crash and at some point had set off to look for help — never to be seen again.
Shortly after the discovery of the Kittyhawk, a team of Italian archaeologists found bones, along with scraps of a Second World War parachute, three miles from the crash site — but Flight-Sergeant Copping’s surviving relatives have been told that the Egyptian authorities have been unable to establish their identity.
His nephew, John Pryor-Bennett, was initially invited to fly to Egypt to supply a DNA sample, but was then told not to bother, as the bones no longer contained any DNA. However, that claim has been disputed by four forensic pathologists advising the family. They hope to travel to Cairo to examine the bones themselves, to give Mr Pryor-Bennett and his family a definitive answer.
Mr Pryor-Bennett, 62, from Kinsale, Co Cork, said: “I am appalled about how all of this has been handled. All the information that I have received since these bones were discovered last June has been misleading and vague.
“The people who found King Richard III were able to get a DNA sample from his bones, and they were over 600 years old. I can’t help feeling let down.”
Laurence Garey, an independent forensic anatomist who has worked at the University of Oxford and the University of Lausanne, disputed the claim that the bones were “too old” to contain DNA. “It is quite inconceivable and I cannot accept that it is true,” he said. “I have got DNA samples from bones far older than 70 years. DNA has been extracted from 60-million-year-old dinosaurs.”
Like its pilot, the Kittyhawk itself is reportedly missing once again in the desert. Its last known location was a storage container at El Alamein, scene of the 8th Army’s decisive victory over Rommel’s Afrika Korps.
The Royal Air Force Museum at Hendon, North London, has been in negotiations with the Egyptian authorities in an effort to have the aircraft returned to Britain.
FourWheelDrift said:
Might be a bit glossy, but I don't think the colours themselves are too far off, its their outlines and the markings that are wrong (the remains of the originals can be seen fairly clearly on the desert photos). Apart from the wheels that appear to be way too small, and the fact it should have been left unrestored IMO, it wouldn't be far away from a decent exhibit. Trouble is, they appear to have deliberately ignored the history of that specific aircraft, since much more is known about it and it's pilot. I wonder if things would have have been presented differently if the pilot/aircraft had been Egyptian?Edited by dr_gn on Thursday 4th January 11:19
Ayahuasca said:
Apparently we swapped a Spitfire for the Kittyhawk; but the deal didn't happen. The Spit is said to be still in the U.K. somewhere although owned by the Egyptians.
I don't have a particular problem with the restoration. Their plane, their desert, their call.
Do you feel the same way about listed buildings?I don't have a particular problem with the restoration. Their plane, their desert, their call.
Yertis said:
Ayahuasca said:
Apparently we swapped a Spitfire for the Kittyhawk; but the deal didn't happen. The Spit is said to be still in the U.K. somewhere although owned by the Egyptians.
I don't have a particular problem with the restoration. Their plane, their desert, their call.
Do you feel the same way about listed buildings?I don't have a particular problem with the restoration. Their plane, their desert, their call.
Simpo Two said:
Ayahuasca said:
Was this a listed building? Who are we to get upset at what foreigners do with their own property?
Who said the P40 belongs to Egypt? Parking it in a desert doesn't transfer ownership does it? Did they claim salvage rights?Ayahuasca said:
Simpo Two said:
Ayahuasca said:
Was this a listed building? Who are we to get upset at what foreigners do with their own property?
Who said the P40 belongs to Egypt? Parking it in a desert doesn't transfer ownership does it? Did they claim salvage rights?"Finally, in 1983 the United States Air Force officially signed off in writing any interest they had in the aircraft, officially stating that the P-61 was considered one of the "spoils of war" under treaties signed ending World War II. The aircraft was thus owned by the country upon whose soil it rested."
Read the full story here (if you feel so inclined): http://www.maam.org/p61/p61_recovery.htm
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