Southampton Boat Show.
Discussion
Popped into the boatshow this morning, first time for 10 years.
Lots less saily boats.
Lots more motorboats.
Massive presence by Sunseeker, very big stuff a bit naff, current generation of Fairline look awful.
Seaward, Hardy, Trusty all looked good and looked like they are making an effort.
Windy look nice, the the 28 and 31 have no table in the cabin, just a bed. That's rubbish.
Hunton looked cool.
Asked 4 engine manufactures about retail pricing for a pair of bobtail engines, not one of them could answer with a price and none knew if bellhousing was SAE 1 or 3 or something else.
Not sure I'll bother for another 10 years.
Lots less saily boats.
Lots more motorboats.
Massive presence by Sunseeker, very big stuff a bit naff, current generation of Fairline look awful.
Seaward, Hardy, Trusty all looked good and looked like they are making an effort.
Windy look nice, the the 28 and 31 have no table in the cabin, just a bed. That's rubbish.
Hunton looked cool.
Asked 4 engine manufactures about retail pricing for a pair of bobtail engines, not one of them could answer with a price and none knew if bellhousing was SAE 1 or 3 or something else.
Not sure I'll bother for another 10 years.
Simpo Two said:
A salesman should know the price; he can hardly sell it otherwise!
Was Shetland there? One bloke does everything!
I remember years ago my dad ordering a front handrail for a Orkney Dory at the boat show.Was Shetland there? One bloke does everything!
The guy delivered it himself at 9PM while on the way up north with a boat delivery. 3 boats stacked on top of each other on a trailer, and one strapped to a Volvo estate roof....
As a boatshow virgin, but someone who has owned a boat (custom built 57ft Narrowboat) and grew up with boats, and someone looking at buying a boat (20ft, trailerable, motor cruiser) I was disappointed in what there was at Southampton - surely this is where the volume is? I suppose it's not where the margin is rather in the 7m plus range.
The fit and finish on the boats we looked at - all the usual suspects (2 berth cuddy/pilothouse for 50K) was generally poor ("sharp" edges on the fibreglass, poorly thought out seating, you sit with your feet on the bed) and because we come from "up north" most dealers were less than interested - you could actually see their faces drop when we said Cumbria. We even watched one conversation with a dealer along the lines of I'm looking for a new 32ft sailboat - where are you from? - "Manchester" dealers face glazes over with the hapless punter then saying "but I do all my sailing in the solent" - cue resumed conversations.
for an International boat show, it had a very regional focus - but it was well worth the trip if mostly for all the wrong reasons...
We're still in the market but are now considering used at less than half our original budget because quite frankly nothing we saw even at boat show prices was worth the money, yes they are a luxury and sold as an aspirational thing (welcome to the wonderful world of value based pricing), and I'm sure it works for some people but for us it was a disappointing day.
Just my own opinion of course.
Simes.
The fit and finish on the boats we looked at - all the usual suspects (2 berth cuddy/pilothouse for 50K) was generally poor ("sharp" edges on the fibreglass, poorly thought out seating, you sit with your feet on the bed) and because we come from "up north" most dealers were less than interested - you could actually see their faces drop when we said Cumbria. We even watched one conversation with a dealer along the lines of I'm looking for a new 32ft sailboat - where are you from? - "Manchester" dealers face glazes over with the hapless punter then saying "but I do all my sailing in the solent" - cue resumed conversations.
for an International boat show, it had a very regional focus - but it was well worth the trip if mostly for all the wrong reasons...
We're still in the market but are now considering used at less than half our original budget because quite frankly nothing we saw even at boat show prices was worth the money, yes they are a luxury and sold as an aspirational thing (welcome to the wonderful world of value based pricing), and I'm sure it works for some people but for us it was a disappointing day.
Just my own opinion of course.
Simes.
51mes said:
As a boatshow virgin, but someone who has owned a boat (custom built 57ft Narrowboat) and grew up with boats, and someone looking at buying a boat (20ft, trailerable, motor cruiser) I was disappointed in what there was at Southampton - surely this is where the volume is? I suppose it's not where the margin is rather in the 7m plus range.
The fit and finish on the boats we looked at - all the usual suspects (2 berth cuddy/pilothouse for 50K) was generally poor ("sharp" edges on the fibreglass, poorly thought out seating, you sit with your feet on the bed) and because we come from "up north" most dealers were less than interested - you could actually see their faces drop when we said Cumbria. We even watched one conversation with a dealer along the lines of I'm looking for a new 32ft sailboat - where are you from? - "Manchester" dealers face glazes over with the hapless punter then saying "but I do all my sailing in the solent" - cue resumed conversations.
for an International boat show, it had a very regional focus - but it was well worth the trip if mostly for all the wrong reasons...
We're still in the market but are now considering used at less than half our original budget because quite frankly nothing we saw even at boat show prices was worth the money, yes they are a luxury and sold as an aspirational thing (welcome to the wonderful world of value based pricing), and I'm sure it works for some people but for us it was a disappointing day.
Just my own opinion of course.
Simes.
Simes,The fit and finish on the boats we looked at - all the usual suspects (2 berth cuddy/pilothouse for 50K) was generally poor ("sharp" edges on the fibreglass, poorly thought out seating, you sit with your feet on the bed) and because we come from "up north" most dealers were less than interested - you could actually see their faces drop when we said Cumbria. We even watched one conversation with a dealer along the lines of I'm looking for a new 32ft sailboat - where are you from? - "Manchester" dealers face glazes over with the hapless punter then saying "but I do all my sailing in the solent" - cue resumed conversations.
for an International boat show, it had a very regional focus - but it was well worth the trip if mostly for all the wrong reasons...
We're still in the market but are now considering used at less than half our original budget because quite frankly nothing we saw even at boat show prices was worth the money, yes they are a luxury and sold as an aspirational thing (welcome to the wonderful world of value based pricing), and I'm sure it works for some people but for us it was a disappointing day.
Just my own opinion of course.
Simes.
Did you speak to English Harbour Yachts? (http://englishharbouryachts.com/)
They have a 27' Cabin cruiser due for launch next year. Beautifuly crafted, quality products. The owners were my bosses at a previous organisation.
Olly
mickrick said:
Yacht brokers... I wouldn´t waste my time talking to them. I´ve never met one who´s been at sea, and I would bet that none of those engine salesmen have swung a spanner.
I´m getting pretty good at knowing when they´re bulls
tting. It´s usually when their lips are moving.
Is that right....I´m getting pretty good at knowing when they´re bulls
tting. It´s usually when their lips are moving.51mes said:
As a boatshow virgin, but someone who has owned a boat (custom built 57ft Narrowboat) and grew up with boats, and someone looking at buying a boat (20ft, trailerable, motor cruiser) I was disappointed in what there was at Southampton - surely this is where the volume is? I suppose it's not where the margin is rather in the 7m plus range.
The fit and finish on the boats we looked at - all the usual suspects (2 berth cuddy/pilothouse for 50K) was generally poor ("sharp" edges on the fibreglass, poorly thought out seating, you sit with your feet on the bed) and because we come from "up north" most dealers were less than interested - you could actually see their faces drop when we said Cumbria. We even watched one conversation with a dealer along the lines of I'm looking for a new 32ft sailboat - where are you from? - "Manchester" dealers face glazes over with the hapless punter then saying "but I do all my sailing in the solent" - cue resumed conversations.
for an International boat show, it had a very regional focus - but it was well worth the trip if mostly for all the wrong reasons...
We're still in the market but are now considering used at less than half our original budget because quite frankly nothing we saw even at boat show prices was worth the money, yes they are a luxury and sold as an aspirational thing (welcome to the wonderful world of value based pricing), and I'm sure it works for some people but for us it was a disappointing day.
Just my own opinion of course.
Simes.
Email or call, I might be able to help....From Up North and Close to you !. I see you Marshal at Oulton, as did I back in the 80's early 90's.The fit and finish on the boats we looked at - all the usual suspects (2 berth cuddy/pilothouse for 50K) was generally poor ("sharp" edges on the fibreglass, poorly thought out seating, you sit with your feet on the bed) and because we come from "up north" most dealers were less than interested - you could actually see their faces drop when we said Cumbria. We even watched one conversation with a dealer along the lines of I'm looking for a new 32ft sailboat - where are you from? - "Manchester" dealers face glazes over with the hapless punter then saying "but I do all my sailing in the solent" - cue resumed conversations.
for an International boat show, it had a very regional focus - but it was well worth the trip if mostly for all the wrong reasons...
We're still in the market but are now considering used at less than half our original budget because quite frankly nothing we saw even at boat show prices was worth the money, yes they are a luxury and sold as an aspirational thing (welcome to the wonderful world of value based pricing), and I'm sure it works for some people but for us it was a disappointing day.
Just my own opinion of course.
Simes.
mickrick said:
Yacht brokers... I wouldn´t waste my time talking to them. I´ve never met one who´s been at sea, and I would bet that none of those engine salesmen have swung a spanner.
I´m getting pretty good at knowing when they´re bullstting. It´s usually when their lips are moving.
Bloody hell, what a damning comment. I'm not a yacht broker, more of a powerboat broker and take offence to the above comment. But then what do I expect from a forum, usually full of experts. I´m getting pretty good at knowing when they´re bulls
tting. It´s usually when their lips are moving.As a broker, I've worked in the workshop, owned many powerboats, worked on all of them, even built my own boat. I'm always out on the water and often take flotilla holidays.
With regards to the location comments, as new boat dealers we often work in seat areas at shows. This is to ensure that customers are directed to their respected regional dealer. I worked on a stand this year which operated in the same way. The question was asked, and if you were from another dealer's area, you were handed over to the appropriate dealer. No point me selling a boat to a customer in Cumbria if there's a dealer up there. You need to have a relationship with the dealer so you can rely on them for after sales and backup.
Trust me, dealers wouldn't be turning away business this year, it's been a very very tough year.
I had a wander round, expected to be there for the afternoon, but only stayed a couple of hours. Longest I stopped in one place was the ice-cream stand.
Jeanneau and Beneteau 38-40' new stuff was awful. Just awful. One was like walking in to ikea, the other was just the weirdest layout I've ever seen, it might have worked for one person in a hundred, but what about the other potential 99 buyers? They walked away, as did I and the next two people that came in behind me.
The jeanneau had the most awful fittings. Almost everything was exactly the same as on my Elan, but about half the size. So, a heavy lifting fridge door that you can just about get your pinky in. Not so bad at the boat show, but what the heck are you supposed to do when you want a coffee in a F6+? All of the cupboard fittings were tiny too, I struggled to open a wardrobe door. Ridiculous. Very dainty, lovely, but the most impractical tosh.
I fancied a look at the new Elans too, but all they had was a couple of the smaller racers, no cruisers at all, and I got some fairly blank looks from the dealer, who admitted being completely new to the brand. I doubt he's ever seen a new cruiser in the flesh, so not exactly selling the dream. I'll stick with what I've got in that case.
The only ones that had it right are the premium sailboat brands. Hallberg-Rassy would have been my pick of the bunch.
I was expecting to go and find a stack of plastic boats that would leave me yearning for a change, but the only thing I wanted to come away with was one of the little, made in Britain wooden sailing dinghies near the entrance, just for a bit of fun on a sunny day.
If sales are down for the big sailboat makers, I can give them some very good reasons why. It's all crap.
Jeanneau and Beneteau 38-40' new stuff was awful. Just awful. One was like walking in to ikea, the other was just the weirdest layout I've ever seen, it might have worked for one person in a hundred, but what about the other potential 99 buyers? They walked away, as did I and the next two people that came in behind me.
The jeanneau had the most awful fittings. Almost everything was exactly the same as on my Elan, but about half the size. So, a heavy lifting fridge door that you can just about get your pinky in. Not so bad at the boat show, but what the heck are you supposed to do when you want a coffee in a F6+? All of the cupboard fittings were tiny too, I struggled to open a wardrobe door. Ridiculous. Very dainty, lovely, but the most impractical tosh.
I fancied a look at the new Elans too, but all they had was a couple of the smaller racers, no cruisers at all, and I got some fairly blank looks from the dealer, who admitted being completely new to the brand. I doubt he's ever seen a new cruiser in the flesh, so not exactly selling the dream. I'll stick with what I've got in that case.
The only ones that had it right are the premium sailboat brands. Hallberg-Rassy would have been my pick of the bunch.
I was expecting to go and find a stack of plastic boats that would leave me yearning for a change, but the only thing I wanted to come away with was one of the little, made in Britain wooden sailing dinghies near the entrance, just for a bit of fun on a sunny day.
If sales are down for the big sailboat makers, I can give them some very good reasons why. It's all crap.
I am not in the market for a boat, but the Sun Odyssey 33I at under 70K seemed a bit of a bargain. Out of interest, what do you suppose the upkeep would cost on a boat like that? Mooring fees, insurance, lifting out and in, anti fouling etc? I understand that a nice pontoon mooring on the Solent would cost an arm and a leg, but what could it reasonably be done for?
wetny said:
I am not in the market for a boat, but the Sun Odyssey 33I at under 70K seemed a bit of a bargain. Out of interest, what do you suppose the upkeep would cost on a boat like that? Mooring fees, insurance, lifting out and in, anti fouling etc? I understand that a nice pontoon mooring on the Solent would cost an arm and a leg, but what could it reasonably be done for?
£7k for a pontoon in the popular places, cheaper in the grotty ones. Anywhere from £2k to £5k for a river mooring or buoy or something. Isle of Wight is a lot cheaper, but you have to live or get there first.Haul out, fouling, haul in, engine service, bits and pieces, around £2k a year (on average, some years will be a lot less!).
Insurance is cheap, about £300-£400.
£70k seems cheap, but I thought the boat was naff. You can get a lot more for your money on the second hand market.
There's a good little video round-up of the show I found here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ybwtv/videos
http://www.youtube.com/user/ybwtv/videos
Sorry guys if my offhand comment re brokers offended. Upon reflection, I was a bit harsh.
But that last twice I´ve gone out of my way to help the brokers that where supposed to be selling my last two commands, I never as much as received an e-mail saying "Thanks for your help". They took the commission, and that was that.
With my previous boat the broker never even showed with their client, they called me after the client had arrived asked me to show the boat. I didn´t see them again until after sea trials and we where lifted for the hull inspection. They then all turned up slapping each other on the back.
That particular broker on one occasion when he turned up with a prospective buyer, asked me to lie about the fuel consumption! He also told the client there where two windlass´s because one was electric, and the other hydraulic....
This time around, I suggested to the Boss he use one of the more "prestigious" brokerages. The bloke showed up to take pictures with a stupid little camera, so I offered to e-mail pictures I had, that I´d taken with a digital SLR. I also offered to take the boat out and spin it around in front of the breakwater, so he could take some exterior shots. He didn´t want to bother. They put a crappy library picture in the brochure of a lesser specced boat. (no teak capping rails for instance)
But they used my pictures in the brochure.
We went out of our way to get the boat into the Palma boat show at the brokerage request, despite 82 nm trip in bad weather, and the dates coinciding with me having to go into hospital for an op (Two weeks notice to go from lay up ready for the yard to boat show standard!) I was at the boat show with a walking stick.
They came on board twice, once to deposit their brochures and other paraphernalia, and once to show another broker. I guess they call that networking, but he was with the same crowd.
One evening during one of the boat show celebrations, we caught one of the brokers taking a ps off the dock directly behind our boat and in front of everyone! tt!
Then it was off to the yard to lift, and a sandblast and epoxy/antifoul.
I got a call to show the boat while we where in a shipyard berth waiting to lift. Back to boat show mode, cushions out, covers off etc. No show!
I called to see where they where, and got "Oh I thought we´d arranged I´d call if they where coming" tt!
Then we had a viewing while the boat was out of the water. The clients showed with their broker from U.K. but our broker didn´t. I showed the boat on a Saturday morning. It´s an hour and a quarter drive for me from home, I got away from the yard at 1600.
Then I got a call from the clients broker at 0830 on the Sunday morning, "can we see the boat again today" another hour and a quarter drive, I got away from the yard at 1600.
But the boat sold! Subject to survey. First viewing.
Endless e-mails, "can you send me this document or that document" Then the icing on the cake... He told my Boss it was one of the most trying sales he´s done! Christ on a bike! He never left his swivel chair! and I haven´t heard from him since.
I was in Club de Mar the other week, and as I walked out of the Doctors office from my seafarers medical, I saw an old Pal sitting in the café outside and he invited me to a coffee. While we where chatting, I saw the broker. He looked directly at me, and before I could acknowledge him he looked away and kept walking! I was furious! I nearly chased him down, but I thought fk him he´s not worth it.
So you see, I haven´t had much fun with brokers. But I guess I shouldn´t tar everyone with the same brush.
Sorry OP for going slightly OT, but I feel I should explain my probably uncalled for post. I was caught at a bitter moment.I would delete it, but what´s said will always remain said. I will put it behind me and move on.
Apologies again for any offence caused to you brokers who are top blokes, wherever you are?
But that last twice I´ve gone out of my way to help the brokers that where supposed to be selling my last two commands, I never as much as received an e-mail saying "Thanks for your help". They took the commission, and that was that.
With my previous boat the broker never even showed with their client, they called me after the client had arrived asked me to show the boat. I didn´t see them again until after sea trials and we where lifted for the hull inspection. They then all turned up slapping each other on the back.
That particular broker on one occasion when he turned up with a prospective buyer, asked me to lie about the fuel consumption! He also told the client there where two windlass´s because one was electric, and the other hydraulic....
This time around, I suggested to the Boss he use one of the more "prestigious" brokerages. The bloke showed up to take pictures with a stupid little camera, so I offered to e-mail pictures I had, that I´d taken with a digital SLR. I also offered to take the boat out and spin it around in front of the breakwater, so he could take some exterior shots. He didn´t want to bother. They put a crappy library picture in the brochure of a lesser specced boat. (no teak capping rails for instance)
But they used my pictures in the brochure.
We went out of our way to get the boat into the Palma boat show at the brokerage request, despite 82 nm trip in bad weather, and the dates coinciding with me having to go into hospital for an op (Two weeks notice to go from lay up ready for the yard to boat show standard!) I was at the boat show with a walking stick.
They came on board twice, once to deposit their brochures and other paraphernalia, and once to show another broker. I guess they call that networking, but he was with the same crowd.
One evening during one of the boat show celebrations, we caught one of the brokers taking a p
s off the dock directly behind our boat and in front of everyone! tt!Then it was off to the yard to lift, and a sandblast and epoxy/antifoul.
I got a call to show the boat while we where in a shipyard berth waiting to lift. Back to boat show mode, cushions out, covers off etc. No show!
I called to see where they where, and got "Oh I thought we´d arranged I´d call if they where coming" t
t!Then we had a viewing while the boat was out of the water. The clients showed with their broker from U.K. but our broker didn´t. I showed the boat on a Saturday morning. It´s an hour and a quarter drive for me from home, I got away from the yard at 1600.
Then I got a call from the clients broker at 0830 on the Sunday morning, "can we see the boat again today" another hour and a quarter drive, I got away from the yard at 1600.
But the boat sold! Subject to survey. First viewing.
Endless e-mails, "can you send me this document or that document" Then the icing on the cake... He told my Boss it was one of the most trying sales he´s done! Christ on a bike! He never left his swivel chair! and I haven´t heard from him since.
I was in Club de Mar the other week, and as I walked out of the Doctors office from my seafarers medical, I saw an old Pal sitting in the café outside and he invited me to a coffee. While we where chatting, I saw the broker. He looked directly at me, and before I could acknowledge him he looked away and kept walking! I was furious! I nearly chased him down, but I thought f
k him he´s not worth it.So you see, I haven´t had much fun with brokers. But I guess I shouldn´t tar everyone with the same brush.
Sorry OP for going slightly OT, but I feel I should explain my probably uncalled for post. I was caught at a bitter moment.I would delete it, but what´s said will always remain said. I will put it behind me and move on.
Apologies again for any offence caused to you brokers who are top blokes, wherever you are?
Maybe this time you can try bringing the Panigale down 
I´d love to see one in the flesh 
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