Train Diversions
Discussion
While on a routine dog walk at the weekend I noticed an East Coast train on the Lincoln lane - a relative rarity. It became clear that the main line was shut and some trains were getting to Peterborough via Lincoln.
It's my understanding that drivers have to be route trained, but yet no East Coast trains normally run this route to do the route training? How does this work? Indeed how does it work if it's done at short notice so no advance warning?
Final question, obviously the trains running did not rely on the overheads? Given that they have engines producing the electricity and are presumably more efficient that the old diesel HST's, does the business case still stack up for overhead power lines?
It's my understanding that drivers have to be route trained, but yet no East Coast trains normally run this route to do the route training? How does this work? Indeed how does it work if it's done at short notice so no advance warning?
Final question, obviously the trains running did not rely on the overheads? Given that they have engines producing the electricity and are presumably more efficient that the old diesel HST's, does the business case still stack up for overhead power lines?
Its not unknown for trains to come to a halt because they get sent on a route where the driver is not trained, and therefore he stops!
I assume that in this case either the East Coast drivers involved were trained on this route or they were carrying drivers that were trained on the route. Its worth reading this report http://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/investigation_... for information on driver route training. It could also apply to the thread of someone building their own railway!
As regards diesel v electric I am pretty sure you'll find that the most efficient form of power for trains is overhead electric, and that is wht they are building these days. Indeed there are rumours that in the not too distant future they will start replacing some of the 3rd rail in the south east with overhead.
I guess that in most cases diesel train is actually a diesel engine powering an electric generator and it is having to use its power to move its generator. It therefore makes more sense to have the generator stationery and not being moved by the train!
I assume that in this case either the East Coast drivers involved were trained on this route or they were carrying drivers that were trained on the route. Its worth reading this report http://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/investigation_... for information on driver route training. It could also apply to the thread of someone building their own railway!
As regards diesel v electric I am pretty sure you'll find that the most efficient form of power for trains is overhead electric, and that is wht they are building these days. Indeed there are rumours that in the not too distant future they will start replacing some of the 3rd rail in the south east with overhead.
I guess that in most cases diesel train is actually a diesel engine powering an electric generator and it is having to use its power to move its generator. It therefore makes more sense to have the generator stationery and not being moved by the train!
Where diversions are regular it is normal for drivers to maintain their route knowledge by running along the line occasionally.
For example, all (or at least most) Chiltern drivers will know the road into Paddington, as that is where their trains go in London if Marylebone is closed for any reason.
Somebody with more up-to-date knowledge may wish to correct the next bit but, if a driver doesn't know the road over a diversionary route, then he will have a pilotman in the cab who does sign the road.
For example, all (or at least most) Chiltern drivers will know the road into Paddington, as that is where their trains go in London if Marylebone is closed for any reason.
Somebody with more up-to-date knowledge may wish to correct the next bit but, if a driver doesn't know the road over a diversionary route, then he will have a pilotman in the cab who does sign the road.
On the subject of diesels - East Coast still run some HSTs to facilitate operation via the un-electrified stretch between Leeds and York (in the case of trains running between London and Edinburgh via Leeds) and Leeds and Doncaster (via part of the Leeds-York route and then the 'Hambleton loop') in the event of the Leeds-Doncaster via Wakefield route being unavailable for Leeds-London services.
tight5 said:
rs1952 said:
Somebody with more up-to-date knowledge may wish to correct the next bit but, if a driver doesn't know the road over a diversionary route, then he will have a pilotman in the cab who does sign the road.
Conductor driver .Pilotman is something very different !
Thanks anyway
Chrisgr31 said:
As regards diesel v electric I am pretty sure you'll find that the most efficient form of power for trains is overhead electric, and that is wht they are building these days. Indeed there are rumours that in the not too distant future they will start replacing some of the 3rd rail in the south east with overhead.
Out of interest what is the benefit of overhead vs 3rd rail?To me as a layman it seems to be a lot more hassle to install and maintain.
rpguk said:
Out of interest what is the benefit of overhead vs 3rd rail?
To me as a layman it seems to be a lot more hassle to install and maintain.
Elfin safety, innit? 750v DC running through a rail can sting a bit if you stand on it.To me as a layman it seems to be a lot more hassle to install and maintain.
That said, the sheer route mileage covered by the 3rd rail system means that the cost of a full conversion would be enormous and therefore probably unlikely. It is more likely to happen where the extension of 25kv would assist longer distance movements (eg OHL between Southampton and Reading when the GWR main line is electrified would allow through electrically-hauled freight trains to run from Southampton to most of the rest of the country.
MajorProblem said:
East Coast run HSTs to London via Lincoln as part of normal diagram.
Yes they do - but we are North of Lincoln so not on this line. I think the first service of the day travels from Leeds via Doncaster to Lincoln, but without passengers - I don't see it, but occasionally hear it.MajorProblem said:
Also 3rd rail is a nightmare at level crossings, bridges, S&C and it freezes up and requires more maintenance. Plus if you are walking the track and trip over you are dead.
Isn't overhead also AC at much higher voltage and therefore a much more efficient way of transmitting electricity?I've had a couple of fun diversions on the Great Western. If the Severn Tunnel is shut it means a lovely scenic trip up to Gloucester and back, and the line is quite slow on the Welsh side. Another one was when the junction out of Temple Meads was shut and we got sent down the line to Avonmouth and back along to Parkway.
I think my favourite was the night that we got diverted through Llanwern steelworks though.
I think my favourite was the night that we got diverted through Llanwern steelworks though.
HSTs are booked to come off at Decoy and go around the flyovers and rejoin the ECML I think this happens once a day.
Also the GN/GE line is the diversion route to Peterborough / Newark from Decoy, in fact when improvement works are complete, all freight will take this line. If you live near the line sell your house now lol.
Also the GN/GE line is the diversion route to Peterborough / Newark from Decoy, in fact when improvement works are complete, all freight will take this line. If you live near the line sell your house now lol.
MajorProblem said:
HSTs are booked to come off at Decoy and go around the flyovers and rejoin the ECML I think this happens once a day.
Also the GN/GE line is the diversion route to Peterborough / Newark from Decoy, in fact when improvement works are complete, all freight will take this line. If you live near the line sell your house now lol.
Should have said this was sat pm/evening.Also the GN/GE line is the diversion route to Peterborough / Newark from Decoy, in fact when improvement works are complete, all freight will take this line. If you live near the line sell your house now lol.
MajorProblem said:
Also 3rd rail is a nightmare at level crossings, bridges, S&C and it freezes up and requires more maintenance. Plus if you are walking the track and trip over you are dead.
Overhead lines are more efficient, around 98% compared to ~93% on 750v DC IIRC.They also deal with brake regeneration (feeding electricity back into the line when a train uses its motors in reverse to slow down) much better.
IIRC the line can also supply more power making trains more powerful allowing longer trains and/or trains more frequently.
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