My rubbish old boat restoration I mean bodging thread
Discussion
Welcome, pull up a chair, sit down, and gaze at the what follows in horror.
I will be attempting to restore an old boat.
I am looking for tips and advice on how to proceed, please!
You should know there are different types of boat restorer. One type (let's call him 'mickrick')has a wealth of experience, vast knowledge, superlative skills, endless patience, wondrous craftsmanship and can lavish enough love on an old tub to transform it into a thing of beauty. Another type (let's call him me) has no idea, no experience, no patience, no budget, incredibly low standards, and is apt to pretend he doesn't really own a boat at all.
Background:
I like sailing small boats. I wanted to buy a small boat to sail. Where I live there were no small boats for sale. Then one day a 'friend' told me where I could find a small boat for sale. I made enquiries. Sure enough, it was a small boat. In a shed. In a boatyard that was littered with all sorts of boat junk.
It was for sale. It had not seen saltwater for years, possibly decades. Here it is:
It is an early 1960's Cape Cod Goldeneye. Never heard of them? OK, the Cape Cod Shipbuilding Company is reputedly the oldest US boatbuiling company still in operation. The Goldeneye was designed by one Nathaniel Herreshoff, aka the Wizard of Bristol, designer of numerous America's Cup yachts, inventor of the yacht winch and a boat design genius. And this was one of his boats, in a shed. Granted, maybe not one of his best ever designs.
Granted, it was not in perfect condition:
But, it was a small sailing boat, exactly what I wanted - and it had been designed by the great Captain Nat himself. So a deal was done.
As I knew nothing about boats, I enlisted the help of the boatyard owner, and a mysterious American bloke who lived on a yacht anchored out the back, to help me.
They kindly painted the boat white. This was a kind of homage to Herreshoff, who once said 'there are only two colours to paint a boat: black and white - and only a fool would paint a boat black.'
I replaced a couple of bits of teak, cleaned out the inside, and made it look a bit better.
The standing rigging was split and frayed shot so I had replacements made up by a firm in Miami.
This, I thought, was more than enough.
I will be attempting to restore an old boat.
I am looking for tips and advice on how to proceed, please!
You should know there are different types of boat restorer. One type (let's call him 'mickrick')has a wealth of experience, vast knowledge, superlative skills, endless patience, wondrous craftsmanship and can lavish enough love on an old tub to transform it into a thing of beauty. Another type (let's call him me) has no idea, no experience, no patience, no budget, incredibly low standards, and is apt to pretend he doesn't really own a boat at all.
Background:
I like sailing small boats. I wanted to buy a small boat to sail. Where I live there were no small boats for sale. Then one day a 'friend' told me where I could find a small boat for sale. I made enquiries. Sure enough, it was a small boat. In a shed. In a boatyard that was littered with all sorts of boat junk.
It was for sale. It had not seen saltwater for years, possibly decades. Here it is:
It is an early 1960's Cape Cod Goldeneye. Never heard of them? OK, the Cape Cod Shipbuilding Company is reputedly the oldest US boatbuiling company still in operation. The Goldeneye was designed by one Nathaniel Herreshoff, aka the Wizard of Bristol, designer of numerous America's Cup yachts, inventor of the yacht winch and a boat design genius. And this was one of his boats, in a shed. Granted, maybe not one of his best ever designs.
Granted, it was not in perfect condition:
But, it was a small sailing boat, exactly what I wanted - and it had been designed by the great Captain Nat himself. So a deal was done.
As I knew nothing about boats, I enlisted the help of the boatyard owner, and a mysterious American bloke who lived on a yacht anchored out the back, to help me.
They kindly painted the boat white. This was a kind of homage to Herreshoff, who once said 'there are only two colours to paint a boat: black and white - and only a fool would paint a boat black.'
I replaced a couple of bits of teak, cleaned out the inside, and made it look a bit better.
The standing rigging was split and frayed shot so I had replacements made up by a firm in Miami.
This, I thought, was more than enough.
Edited by Ayahuasca on Thursday 31st October 15:44
Launching the thing was a struggle.
No slipway you see. Backed the trailer onto the beach, where it promptly sank into the sand. Bloke in a powerboat tried to pull the boat off with a line. Didn't work. Eventually with much pushing and shoving, and enlisting the help of the red 4x4 we got the thing into the water.
Where the bilges promptly filled with seawater. The boat was to stay half filled with seawater for the next two years.
Still, the white paint looks good.
No slipway you see. Backed the trailer onto the beach, where it promptly sank into the sand. Bloke in a powerboat tried to pull the boat off with a line. Didn't work. Eventually with much pushing and shoving, and enlisting the help of the red 4x4 we got the thing into the water.
Where the bilges promptly filled with seawater. The boat was to stay half filled with seawater for the next two years.
Still, the white paint looks good.
Edited by Ayahuasca on Monday 28th October 16:36
Remember that old Herreshoff invented the yacht winch?
Before Herreshoff it was all blocks and tackles, which meant massive crews to provide the muscle to control the sails on his big America's Cup boats. Winches meant that fewer crew was needed and they are now found on most boats. They are precision tools, perfectly made engineering marvels.
Not my ones. My ones were probably one of Herreshoff's prototype designs that got thrown in the bin shortly after they were fitted to my boat.
Needless to say you can't get bits for them.
The main bits are things called 'pawls' which are little stubby metal rods, and springs.
The springs force the rods against the top disk which then acts like a ratchet. The springs were knackered.
This is when the first bodge occurred.
It struck me that the springs were very similar in size to the springs found in the end of a biro. Presto! They fitted, almost, and when it was all slathered in thick grease they fitted slightly better. Of course, they didn't work 100%, but Good Enough for Me.
I did spend ages with a drill, a wire brush attachment and some hydrochloric acid to clean the dull green metal back to shining bronze. Needn't have bothered - a few days outside and they were back to dull green. Maybe they are supposed to be that colour.
Before Herreshoff it was all blocks and tackles, which meant massive crews to provide the muscle to control the sails on his big America's Cup boats. Winches meant that fewer crew was needed and they are now found on most boats. They are precision tools, perfectly made engineering marvels.
Not my ones. My ones were probably one of Herreshoff's prototype designs that got thrown in the bin shortly after they were fitted to my boat.
Needless to say you can't get bits for them.
The main bits are things called 'pawls' which are little stubby metal rods, and springs.
The springs force the rods against the top disk which then acts like a ratchet. The springs were knackered.
This is when the first bodge occurred.
It struck me that the springs were very similar in size to the springs found in the end of a biro. Presto! They fitted, almost, and when it was all slathered in thick grease they fitted slightly better. Of course, they didn't work 100%, but Good Enough for Me.
I did spend ages with a drill, a wire brush attachment and some hydrochloric acid to clean the dull green metal back to shining bronze. Needn't have bothered - a few days outside and they were back to dull green. Maybe they are supposed to be that colour.
The boat is in Panama. The weather in Panama is a bit funny. For 9 months of the year there is no wind and it rains every day, a LOT. For the other 3 months it doesn't rain and there is lots of wind.
I kept the boat afloat for two years. It is on the Caribbean side, in a little bay about a two hour drive from where I live. The routine was always - drive to boat, spend an hour of so pumping the combination of seawater out, sailing around for a bit, pumping all the time.
Other times I would determine to find the source of the leak - this meant spending hours diving underneath and plugging all likely looking areas with underwater epoxy. Did no good at all.
Some other times I would attack the leak from above, glassing over some suspicious areas and spreading copious amounts of 3M's 5200 in others. Did no good at all. No matter what, it always filled with seawater. This somewhat dampened my enthusiasm.
Haul the boat out! I hear you say. Find the leak and repair it properly!
Could not be done as there was no slipway - once I had launched the boat, she stayed launched.
What I did to save all the pumping was fit an electric bilge pump and a solar panel to keep a battery charged. Did it work? Did it f
k.
I paid a deaf and dumb local to keep an eye on her and pump her out if she looked like sinking. Then the visits to pump, sail, repair, pump tailed off.
Over the last two years she quickly deteriorated, and was very unloved. The guy who was keeping an eye on her disappeared.
Then about two months ago I got a phone call from the guy who owns the beach where she bobbed, half full of water, at anchor.
'Your boat has sunk!'
I kept the boat afloat for two years. It is on the Caribbean side, in a little bay about a two hour drive from where I live. The routine was always - drive to boat, spend an hour of so pumping the combination of seawater out, sailing around for a bit, pumping all the time.
Other times I would determine to find the source of the leak - this meant spending hours diving underneath and plugging all likely looking areas with underwater epoxy. Did no good at all.
Some other times I would attack the leak from above, glassing over some suspicious areas and spreading copious amounts of 3M's 5200 in others. Did no good at all. No matter what, it always filled with seawater. This somewhat dampened my enthusiasm.
Haul the boat out! I hear you say. Find the leak and repair it properly!
Could not be done as there was no slipway - once I had launched the boat, she stayed launched.
What I did to save all the pumping was fit an electric bilge pump and a solar panel to keep a battery charged. Did it work? Did it f
k. I paid a deaf and dumb local to keep an eye on her and pump her out if she looked like sinking. Then the visits to pump, sail, repair, pump tailed off.
Over the last two years she quickly deteriorated, and was very unloved. The guy who was keeping an eye on her disappeared.
Then about two months ago I got a phone call from the guy who owns the beach where she bobbed, half full of water, at anchor.
'Your boat has sunk!'
Edited by Ayahuasca on Monday 28th October 18:17
It hadn't sunk but it was full of water. It hadn't sunk only because the water was too shallow for it to sink. Clearly something would have to be done.
I dragged it out of the sea and got it onto a trailer. A bh of a job. Then I took the mast down and got my boat yard owning friend to take it away.
I dragged it out of the sea and got it onto a trailer. A b
h of a job. Then I took the mast down and got my boat yard owning friend to take it away. All the above is by way of background. The boat is back in the shed where it started and this time I am determined to bodge restore her properly slightly more effectively.
This is the current state of play:
Paint was badly blistered. In this pic a lot of the white paint has been sanded off. It transpires that the person who painted it was a worse bodger than me and had simply sprayed the existing paint with white polyurethane, which looked good but was no barrier to water.
It seems the beige paint was the original colour - the woven fiberglass is directly underneath it and there is no evidence that gelcoat was ever applied. I understand that in the early days of fiberglass they would just paint the fiberglass directly without using gelcoat.
My plan is to take the paint off to a sound layer (the fiberglass is sound) and apply some sort of epoxy barrier before a top coat. Any ideas and tips / advice welcome!!
This is the current state of play:
Paint was badly blistered. In this pic a lot of the white paint has been sanded off. It transpires that the person who painted it was a worse bodger than me and had simply sprayed the existing paint with white polyurethane, which looked good but was no barrier to water.
It seems the beige paint was the original colour - the woven fiberglass is directly underneath it and there is no evidence that gelcoat was ever applied. I understand that in the early days of fiberglass they would just paint the fiberglass directly without using gelcoat.
My plan is to take the paint off to a sound layer (the fiberglass is sound) and apply some sort of epoxy barrier before a top coat. Any ideas and tips / advice welcome!!
As for the bane of my life - the leak!
The water was coming into the bilges from the 'deadwood'. This is an inaccessible void in the lowest part of the hull just above the lead keel. There was no way of knowing how it was getting into the deadwood, but months of fking about with underwater epoxy and many calls to the factory in New England (who still build the things) to find out how it had been put together lead me to suspect that the keel - hull sealant had failed, and that water was entering through the keel-bolt holes into the deadwood, and thence into the bilge. God knows what state the keel bolts would be in, and if the keel were to fall off at sea it would not be nice.
I got my friend to take the keel off. This involved taking out the teak side planks, removing the cockpit, basically pulling the boat apart, then angle grinding through the top of the deadwood through to the keel-bolts. He finally managed it. The keel is about a ton of lead.
I told the factory we had taken the keel off and they told me that in a half-century of Goldeneye production NOBODY as far as they knew had taken a keel off. So we are pioneers!
The keel-bolts and nuts are all bronze and look to be in tip-top condition.
There is a centimeter or so of white caulking that will need to be chipped off.
The plan then is to slather the top of the keel and the bottom of the hull with 3M 5200 and do the bolts up again. No water should be able to get through. No water will pass!
The water was coming into the bilges from the 'deadwood'. This is an inaccessible void in the lowest part of the hull just above the lead keel. There was no way of knowing how it was getting into the deadwood, but months of f
king about with underwater epoxy and many calls to the factory in New England (who still build the things) to find out how it had been put together lead me to suspect that the keel - hull sealant had failed, and that water was entering through the keel-bolt holes into the deadwood, and thence into the bilge. God knows what state the keel bolts would be in, and if the keel were to fall off at sea it would not be nice.I got my friend to take the keel off. This involved taking out the teak side planks, removing the cockpit, basically pulling the boat apart, then angle grinding through the top of the deadwood through to the keel-bolts. He finally managed it. The keel is about a ton of lead.
I told the factory we had taken the keel off and they told me that in a half-century of Goldeneye production NOBODY as far as they knew had taken a keel off. So we are pioneers!
The keel-bolts and nuts are all bronze and look to be in tip-top condition.
There is a centimeter or so of white caulking that will need to be chipped off.
The plan then is to slather the top of the keel and the bottom of the hull with 3M 5200 and do the bolts up again. No water should be able to get through. No water will pass!
This is the cockpit. It is molded fiberglass and has a couple of hatches. It is meant to be self draining but the drains let more water in than out so I sealed them up. My plan here is to jet wash it and paint it. Unless anyone has a better idea? Mickrick-style teak? Yes, wouldn't that be lovely? Sadly way beyond my competence.
The toe-rail is spit and broken. I would like to replace it and am having visions of needing a kettle to boil water with a hose to direct the steam into a PVC pipe so that I can bend the teak. Is that how you do it?
Hate to think what the hull-deck joint is like, might be a sleeping dog situation.
Any ideas gratefully received!
Regarding the leak, a suspicious eye has been turned onto the rudder post.
The rudder took a bit of a pounding during the launch and the post is in a sleeve that goes through the hull and there is a connection between the rudder-post and the deadwood void that kept filling with water.
I don't know how it was put together so might ask the factory again. I plan on loosening all the rudder post fixings and dropping it down a bit. I will be a bit annoyed if it turns out to be the rudder post as I have been blaming the keel for the past 2 years.
The rudder took a bit of a pounding during the launch and the post is in a sleeve that goes through the hull and there is a connection between the rudder-post and the deadwood void that kept filling with water.
I don't know how it was put together so might ask the factory again. I plan on loosening all the rudder post fixings and dropping it down a bit. I will be a bit annoyed if it turns out to be the rudder post as I have been blaming the keel for the past 2 years.
el stovey said:
So in summary, you bought a boat that had been in a shed for years, bodged it into the water and after two years of neglect, it sunk. (despite paying a blind man to look after it). Now it's in the same shed where you found it.
I feel bad now. That is a fair summary, except he wasn't blind, just deaf and mute. I said to him, 'if boat full of water (making wave signs with arms rising higher), you (pointing at him) swim to boat (swimming motions) and pump it all out (pumping motions) and me give you 20 dollars (showing him the money). He always nodded furiously but I was never convinced he fully got the idea. Ayahuasca said:
It hadn't sunk but it was full of water. It hadn't sunk only because the water was too shallow for it to sink. Clearly something would have to be done.
I dragged it out of the sea and got it onto a trailer. A bh of a job. Then I took the mast down and got my boat yard owning friend to take it away.
Glad to see a good old bit of British engineering dragging it out ;-)I dragged it out of the sea and got it onto a trailer. A b
h of a job. Then I took the mast down and got my boat yard owning friend to take it away. Part of the problem is that I kept the boat on the Caribbean side a couple of hours drive away. The sailing on that side is challenging as the trade winds (three months of the year) blow from the north, making the whole coast a lee shore. No real shelters or harbours except for Portobello, lots of shoals and uncharted reefs, and of course, if the worst happens you are on your own. No RNLI out here.
Very interesting and entertaining blog re the goldeneye "Restoration" I guess you bought it in panama? ...( I am well acquainted with sailing on the atlantic side of panama). How did you get the boat. "Home" wherever that is?
The original pics you posted of the red boat looked pretty good. The goldeneye is a wonderful boat. I did think the keel was an integral part of the boat so the keel bolts issue surprised me.
Any way. Where are you on this project now? Looking for follow up!
Mcbattery43@yahoo.com
The original pics you posted of the red boat looked pretty good. The goldeneye is a wonderful boat. I did think the keel was an integral part of the boat so the keel bolts issue surprised me.
Any way. Where are you on this project now? Looking for follow up!
Mcbattery43@yahoo.com
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