Discussion
An interesting concept but is there really a market for something carrying a payload of a bit over a tonne for 21 days? Persistent surveillance is useful to the military, but low speed means it's potentially less useful for watching stuff a long way away than fixed wing aircraft, and aerostat systems are far simpler for watching the local area.
The video mentions mining, is the idea that this would be cheaper to operate than fixed wing for doing geological surveys?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26372277
The best airship uses I've seen in recent years have been about moving slowly or holding position, eg mine hunting, rather than mmore efficient flight.
I'd love to see these in the sky but I'd be interested to know the market.
The video mentions mining, is the idea that this would be cheaper to operate than fixed wing for doing geological surveys?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26372277
The best airship uses I've seen in recent years have been about moving slowly or holding position, eg mine hunting, rather than mmore efficient flight.
I'd love to see these in the sky but I'd be interested to know the market.
Maybe they'll find a home away from industrial or military applications and end up in the luxury market?
I can see the larger versions mentioned in the report (50 tonnes payload?) carving a niche as a flying alternative to a Sunseeker as the ultimate getaway vehicle. Where big boats have speed and the ocean for seclusion, this would have the sky......If nothing else the views would take some beating, and there is a certain appeal in not having to be anywhere in a hurry.
I can see the larger versions mentioned in the report (50 tonnes payload?) carving a niche as a flying alternative to a Sunseeker as the ultimate getaway vehicle. Where big boats have speed and the ocean for seclusion, this would have the sky......If nothing else the views would take some beating, and there is a certain appeal in not having to be anywhere in a hurry.
d.After just seeing this on the Mail i think the major use for this would be air freight.
Wait until Fed-ex/UPS etc. start using high payload versions of these things as opposed to their current freight aircraft:
Higher payload (eventually)
Admitedly slower moving (not so much of a problem for freight)
Less fuel used so lower costs of transport etc.
But the big one:
Vertical landing/takeoff
How long until they attach a landing area to their distribution warehouses? - the airships will then integrate into these directly getting rid of the need for a degree of road transport and associated cost as well as saving time/money. They won't need to have multiple sites, expensive landing slots etc.
London to China is around 6k miles (worst case) - so 60 hours flight time (2.5 days) which is acceptable for freight, whilst traditional air freight can still be offered at additional cost?
Wait until Fed-ex/UPS etc. start using high payload versions of these things as opposed to their current freight aircraft:
Higher payload (eventually)
Admitedly slower moving (not so much of a problem for freight)
Less fuel used so lower costs of transport etc.
But the big one:
Vertical landing/takeoff
How long until they attach a landing area to their distribution warehouses? - the airships will then integrate into these directly getting rid of the need for a degree of road transport and associated cost as well as saving time/money. They won't need to have multiple sites, expensive landing slots etc.
London to China is around 6k miles (worst case) - so 60 hours flight time (2.5 days) which is acceptable for freight, whilst traditional air freight can still be offered at additional cost?
To be fair the tonne of freight is the current prototype, they're claiming they could build a 50 tonne one, so similar payload to a 747.
Good point about being able to use smaller fields rather than airports, but I wonder how much that 2 day trip to china in one of these would cost compared to a 747? Plus you'd have to reduce the payload a bit for crew accommodation if they're going to be flying the thing for several days.
Good point about being able to use smaller fields rather than airports, but I wonder how much that 2 day trip to china in one of these would cost compared to a 747? Plus you'd have to reduce the payload a bit for crew accommodation if they're going to be flying the thing for several days.
Simpo Two said:
But only a ton of freight - what's that against the cost of the airship? I think to pay it would have to cost a lot, and that won't fit with the slow times.
Initially yes, but they are developing ones with a 50tn payload....But even at 10 tonnes it gets more viable, especially on shorter routes
RizzoTheRat said:
I wonder how much that 2 day trip to china in one of these would cost compared to a 747? Plus you'd have to reduce the payload a bit for crew accommodation if they're going to be flying the thing for several days.
I don't see it getting to China in two days with all the various winds it's going to encounter. But it's an interesting halfay house between an airliner's 'Get there fast but in a small chair' and an ocean liner's 'Get there slowly in space and luxury'. Weight is an issue but space isn't so critical.
DoubleSix said:
What about key workers to remote mining destinations or telecoms base stations... Im think Australia et al
The hotter the climate the smaller the payload. It can certainly do stuff but I just can't see the numbers adding up. And where do you keep it safely when a tornado comes in? Helium has solved the flammability issue but I think the overall business model for airships still doesn't work. But am happy to be proved wrong.Simpo Two said:
Helium has solved the flammability issue
But at the expense of lifting capacity, helium is about double the density. Presumably modern construction techniques offset that a lot but I wonder how big the envelope on a modern airship needs to be for a given payload compared to R101/Zeppelin era ones.
twice the volume?
i guess this airship is from the canned Usa " Walrus HULA" (Hybrid Ultra Large Aircraft) project
same type of airship was also tried in germany the "cargolift ag"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargolifter_AG
As i understood one of the reasons the german (and i guess usa) project failed was due to the fact they could not get the airship to hold in a stable safe landed state from a fully loaded to unloaded .
same type of airship was also tried in germany the "cargolift ag"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargolifter_AG
As i understood one of the reasons the german (and i guess usa) project failed was due to the fact they could not get the airship to hold in a stable safe landed state from a fully loaded to unloaded .
richebets said:
i guess this airship is from the canned Usa " Walrus HULA" (Hybrid Ultra Large Aircraft) project
Not quite, it was built for the LEMV project, which in some respects seems to have been a Walrus lite (and in a change the US spent $300m building it and we've bought it for $300k).richebets said:
same type of airship was also tried in germany the "cargolift ag"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargolifter_AG
As i understood one of the reasons the german (and i guess usa) project failed was due to the fact they could not get the airship to hold in a stable safe landed state from a fully loaded to unloaded .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargolifter_AG
As i understood one of the reasons the german (and i guess usa) project failed was due to the fact they could not get the airship to hold in a stable safe landed state from a fully loaded to unloaded .
ETA - the problem is it just doesn't seem to work very well, make it small enough to be practical (and not be blown around by the wind) and you don't get enough lift to be worth the bother, make it large enough to give you the lift and it's just too cumbersome - which is why the US dropped it. The LEMV was supposed to hover over an area for 20 days or so to provide surveillance, but it seems it was so overweight it could only hold itself up for 5 days. http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/us-army-...
Edited by maffski on Saturday 1st March 16:16
Edited by maffski on Saturday 1st March 16:21
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