The Falklands Most Darling Raid

[Hooli]

Now on More4. Worth it just for the Vulcan & other proper aeroplane footage.

[Ilovetwiglets]

Sounds better than the most 'daring' raid!

[mybrainhurts]

Hooli said:

The Falklands Most Darling Raid

So that's how we did it...

Sent Alistair to scare them stupid with his eyebrows, eh...?

How cunning is that?

You can just hear the panic .... Eth, eth, eth, they send the Manbadgers to eat us...

[Hooli]

That'll teach me to type quick while watching TV






Mind you, the idea of dropping Alistair Darling out of a Vulcan does have an appeal...

[perdu]

Hooli said:

That'll teach me to type quick while watching TV






Mind you, the idea of dropping Alistair Darling out of a Vulcan does have an appeal...

Yes.

If there's to be an appeal I'll bung a bob or two.

Will there be a ride for Winky too?

[Hooli]

Can a Vulcan lift an ego that large?


Air France 447 now, an interesting nights TV for once.

[IanMorewood]

Air France program was scary, copilot held the stick back for the better part of three minutes as the altimeter unwound from 38k and the plane repeatedly told him he was in a stall.

[jonnyb]

IanMorewood said:

Air France program was scary, copilot held the stick back for the better part of three minutes as the altimeter unwound from 38k and the plane repeatedly told him he was in a stall.

Not quite that simple.

[Simpo Two]

According to the lengthy thread on here sometime agao, it pretty much was.

[T66ORA]

[Mojocvh]

I seem to remember something about St Helenian's and a raid down in the depths of 48 but they'd being doing the RIC on tic and it all got out of hand very quickly....

[jonnyb]

Simpo Two said:

According to the lengthy thread on here sometime agao, it pretty much was.

According to the accident report, it wasn't.

[Simpo Two]

Perhaps I have it wrong. I was thinking of the one where the French crew of a large airliner spent most of the way down arguing with each other. Must have been another one.

[jonnyb]

No, no, that was the one. Just there was a little more to it than the FO held the stick back and the aircraft stalled. You have already mentioned another aspect to it.

[Simpo Two]

Well it's pilot error, whether their error was bickering or pulling the lever the wrong way

[jonnyb]

Simpo Two said:

Well it's pilot error, whether their error was bickering or pulling the lever the wrong way

Not just pilot error. That was the overriding factor, but it may have helped if they had been trained properly, amongst other things.

[Hooli]

jonnyb said:

Simpo Two said:

Well it's pilot error, whether their error was bickering or pulling the lever the wrong way

Not just pilot error. That was the overriding factor, but it may have helped if they had been trained properly, amongst other things.

Odd they need more training really as stall recovery is well covered even when you do your PPL.

[jonnyb]

Hooli said:

jonnyb said:

Simpo Two said:

Well it's pilot error, whether their error was bickering or pulling the lever the wrong way

Not just pilot error. That was the overriding factor, but it may have helped if they had been trained properly, amongst other things.

Odd they need more training really as stall recovery is well covered even when you do your PPL.

Thats the problem. Stalling at 35000ft in an A330 is very very different from your standard PPL type stall. However most airline pilots have no experince of high altitude stalling, or any type of jet upset. They just do the standard PPL type stalling.

The aerodynamics of high altitude flight, and jet upset recovery, are hardly covered in the ATPL course. Also, the current generation of simulators canot replicate high altitude jet upsets, due to the maufacturers keeping the data to themselves.

So next time you get into a holiday jet just think, the only actual stalling your pilots have experinced was in a C152!

[Hooli]

jonnyb said:

Thats the problem. Stalling at 35000ft in an A330 is very very different from your standard PPL type stall. However most airline pilots have no experince of high altitude stalling, or any type of jet upset. They just do the standard PPL type stalling.

The aerodynamics of high altitude flight, and jet upset recovery, are hardly covered in the ATPL course. Also, the current generation of simulators canot replicate high altitude jet upsets, due to the maufacturers keeping the data to themselves.

So next time you get into a holiday jet just think, the only actual stalling your pilots have experinced was in a C152!

Cheers for the info, I feel safer as my holidays always involve putting luggage on a motorbike & riding to a ferry.

[MaxNg]

By way of comfort following the last post, you can bet that the Air France guys will face something very similar on each sim session. However, in this case, following the loss of their airspeed indications, had they simply kept the power where it was, flown the existing attitude by hand, they would have been fine. Once clear of icy cloud, they would have regained their airspeed indications and thus the autopilot functions.

It is - of course - very easy for me to say this from the comfort of my chair and having read the reports.