English as international language of aviation.
Discussion
I know that english is the international language of aviation,but are pilots and atc allowed to communicate in their own language if the they are from the same country,particularly on domestic flights?
,and what if a pilot of an international flight was very fluent in the language of the country of his destination,would he still be able to speak to atc in that countries language?
,and what if a pilot of an international flight was very fluent in the language of the country of his destination,would he still be able to speak to atc in that countries language?
France was one of the worst offenders in my opinion. I was in Paris Charles De Gaulle after they had already had an accident where the lack of standardisation in language was a significant factor in a fatal crash and they cleared a French aircraft to take off further down the runway in poor visibility, in direct conflict with our clearance. Only schoolboy French from us prevented another occurrence.
I consider myself very lucky that English is the international language of aviation, because I'm so poor at other languages, but it is essential for situational awareness. At least in China the airways foreign carriers fly are so limited you have a little more protection. Give it another 10 years of growth and it may be less straightforward.
I consider myself very lucky that English is the international language of aviation, because I'm so poor at other languages, but it is essential for situational awareness. At least in China the airways foreign carriers fly are so limited you have a little more protection. Give it another 10 years of growth and it may be less straightforward.
r1flyguy1 said:
Fly in china, 
English language is a thorn in their side, they only speak English when they have too, otherwise local dialect fills the airwaves.
I thought that might be the case in somewhere like China,it would be pointless for a chinese atc'er and chinese pilot communicating in english when a chinese airline international flight is returning to china.English language is a thorn in their side, they only speak English when they have too, otherwise local dialect fills the airwaves.
What prompted me to ask the question is that the final communication from the co-pilot of flight MH370 was 'all right,good night'spoken in english but neither he or the airline,or atc were from an english speaking country.
As above really. I'm based in France with my company and I'd say just under half of the RT transmissions are in French. It can be rather worrying if you don't have a basic grasp of the language and they're not exactly of UK standards when it comes to controlling either, so self preservation is vital.
1800ft on approach a few days ago, cleared to land... Then given some traffic info.
"G/A traffic transiting airfield at 2000ft"
We both just looked at each other... " guess we aren't going around then " (said jokingly of course) we made a plan if it had happened.
It seems if you speak the local language, you get priority down here.
I heard them cancel a 146's T/O clearance whilst it was on the role a few months ago. For exactly the same reason as above.
1800ft on approach a few days ago, cleared to land... Then given some traffic info.
"G/A traffic transiting airfield at 2000ft"
We both just looked at each other... " guess we aren't going around then " (said jokingly of course) we made a plan if it had happened.
It seems if you speak the local language, you get priority down here.
I heard them cancel a 146's T/O clearance whilst it was on the role a few months ago. For exactly the same reason as above.
wildone63 said:
I thought that might be the case in somewhere like China,it would be pointless for a chinese atc'er and chinese pilot communicating in english when a chinese airline international flight is returning to china.
It's only pointless using English if everyone else on the frequency can be assumed to be fluent in Chinese. There seems to be a misunderstanding developing that only English is acceptable in aviation: English is the international language, however, it is perfectly acceptable for a country to designate another (usually its own) for internal use, where there's no risk of confusion. So a flight into a Chinese internal airport could be legitimately conducted in whichever Chinese language they decide.
MarkwG said:
There seems to be a misunderstanding developing that only English is acceptable in aviation: English is the international language, however, it is perfectly acceptable for a country to designate another (usually its own) for internal use, where there's no risk of confusion. So a flight into a Chinese internal airport could be legitimately conducted in whichever Chinese language they decide.
Legal it may be. Acceptable it is not. Dr Jekyll said:
MarkwG said:
Why is it unacceptable?
Because aircrews not fluent in the particular language won't know what's going on. If they or the controller makes a mistake that puts them into conflict with the Chinese speaking aircraft they won't spot it.There was in incident in the US where an aircraft became lost on an airfield and entered the active runway. The controller cleared another aircraft to depart even though she knew there was an aircraft lost. Sensibly, the departing aircraft declined the clearance after over hearing the conversation between the controller and the lost aircraft.
What do yo think the outcome would be if they were speaking a completely different language?
Dr Jekyll said:
MarkwG said:
Why is it unacceptable?
Because aircrews not fluent in the particular language won't know what's going on. If they or the controller makes a mistake that puts them into conflict with the Chinese speaking aircraft they won't spot it.jonnyb said:
Dr Jekyll said:
MarkwG said:
Why is it unacceptable?
Because aircrews not fluent in the particular language won't know what's going on. If they or the controller makes a mistake that puts them into conflict with the Chinese speaking aircraft they won't spot it.There was in incident in the US where an aircraft became lost on an airfield and entered the active runway. The controller cleared another aircraft to depart even though she knew there was an aircraft lost. Sensibly, the departing aircraft declined the clearance after over hearing the conversation between the controller and the lost aircraft.
What do yo think the outcome would be if they were speaking a completely different language?
Edited by MarkwG on Tuesday 29th April 21:46
Just thought I would post as people might find this amusing...
My Dad had a PPL so I used to fly with him a lot when I was younger, and for years our next door neighbour was a Captian for BA. Plus I also have a friend who flies for Monarch, and I've also been a lucky sod in as much as I have spent quite a few hours with some incredible pilots, buzzing around the UK in a Heli. So overall, I have been in the air a fair old bit.
Hence, over those years, I have kind of picked up the radio lingo of professional flyers, and their innate politeness when speaking to ATC - especially when signing off from one.
So, recently, my new job involves radio contact with our control - in emergency vehicles as a trainee Paramedic.
Already, people are taking the right piss out of me for being similarly polite and using professional language over the radio, with particular stick for signing off with something like "Sierra Alpha 136, all received, thank you and bye bye..."
But f
k 'em. I think my manner adds a degree of politeness and professionalism to the conversations, no?!
My Dad had a PPL so I used to fly with him a lot when I was younger, and for years our next door neighbour was a Captian for BA. Plus I also have a friend who flies for Monarch, and I've also been a lucky sod in as much as I have spent quite a few hours with some incredible pilots, buzzing around the UK in a Heli. So overall, I have been in the air a fair old bit.
Hence, over those years, I have kind of picked up the radio lingo of professional flyers, and their innate politeness when speaking to ATC - especially when signing off from one.
So, recently, my new job involves radio contact with our control - in emergency vehicles as a trainee Paramedic.
Already, people are taking the right piss out of me for being similarly polite and using professional language over the radio, with particular stick for signing off with something like "Sierra Alpha 136, all received, thank you and bye bye..."
But f
k 'em. I think my manner adds a degree of politeness and professionalism to the conversations, no?!wildone63 said:
What prompted me to ask the question is that the final communication from the co-pilot of flight MH370 was 'all right,good night'spoken in english but neither he or the airline,or atc were from an english speaking country.
For the record English is a second language in Malaysia, and sees widespread use, so this is not particularly notable.Ray Luxury-Yacht said:
Just thought I would post as people might find this amusing...
My Dad had a PPL so I used to fly with him a lot when I was younger, and for years our next door neighbour was a Captian for BA. Plus I also have a friend who flies for Monarch, and I've also been a lucky sod in as much as I have spent quite a few hours with some incredible pilots, buzzing around the UK in a Heli. So overall, I have been in the air a fair old bit.
Hence, over those years, I have kind of picked up the radio lingo of professional flyers, and their innate politeness when speaking to ATC - especially when signing off from one.
So, recently, my new job involves radio contact with our control - in emergency vehicles as a trainee Paramedic.
Already, people are taking the right piss out of me for being similarly polite and using professional language over the radio, with particular stick for signing off with something like "Sierra Alpha 136, all received, thank you and bye bye..."
But fk 'em. I think my manner adds a degree of politeness and professionalism to the conversations, no?!
Nothing wrong with being polite, but bye bye is a bit too informal and would leave the recipient wondering whether there was more to follow, what's wrong with the good old military 'over' if there's more to come or 'out' when all is finished....My Dad had a PPL so I used to fly with him a lot when I was younger, and for years our next door neighbour was a Captian for BA. Plus I also have a friend who flies for Monarch, and I've also been a lucky sod in as much as I have spent quite a few hours with some incredible pilots, buzzing around the UK in a Heli. So overall, I have been in the air a fair old bit.
Hence, over those years, I have kind of picked up the radio lingo of professional flyers, and their innate politeness when speaking to ATC - especially when signing off from one.
So, recently, my new job involves radio contact with our control - in emergency vehicles as a trainee Paramedic.
Already, people are taking the right piss out of me for being similarly polite and using professional language over the radio, with particular stick for signing off with something like "Sierra Alpha 136, all received, thank you and bye bye..."
But f
k 'em. I think my manner adds a degree of politeness and professionalism to the conversations, no?!HarryW said:
Ray Luxury-Yacht said:
Just thought I would post as people might find this amusing...
My Dad had a PPL so I used to fly with him a lot when I was younger, and for years our next door neighbour was a Captian for BA. Plus I also have a friend who flies for Monarch, and I've also been a lucky sod in as much as I have spent quite a few hours with some incredible pilots, buzzing around the UK in a Heli. So overall, I have been in the air a fair old bit.
Hence, over those years, I have kind of picked up the radio lingo of professional flyers, and their innate politeness when speaking to ATC - especially when signing off from one.
So, recently, my new job involves radio contact with our control - in emergency vehicles as a trainee Paramedic.
Already, people are taking the right piss out of me for being similarly polite and using professional language over the radio, with particular stick for signing off with something like "Sierra Alpha 136, all received, thank you and bye bye..."
But fk 'em. I think my manner adds a degree of politeness and professionalism to the conversations, no?!
Nothing wrong with being polite, but bye bye is a bit too informal and would leave the recipient wondering whether there was more to follow, what's wrong with the good old military 'over' if there's more to come or 'out' when all is finished....My Dad had a PPL so I used to fly with him a lot when I was younger, and for years our next door neighbour was a Captian for BA. Plus I also have a friend who flies for Monarch, and I've also been a lucky sod in as much as I have spent quite a few hours with some incredible pilots, buzzing around the UK in a Heli. So overall, I have been in the air a fair old bit.
Hence, over those years, I have kind of picked up the radio lingo of professional flyers, and their innate politeness when speaking to ATC - especially when signing off from one.
So, recently, my new job involves radio contact with our control - in emergency vehicles as a trainee Paramedic.
Already, people are taking the right piss out of me for being similarly polite and using professional language over the radio, with particular stick for signing off with something like "Sierra Alpha 136, all received, thank you and bye bye..."
But f
k 'em. I think my manner adds a degree of politeness and professionalism to the conversations, no?!Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff