Flight Design CTLS

[Webby66]

I am currently learning to fly on one of these and the school are offering a share in a newish plane for £6,500 plus £100 per month to cover hangerage, maintenance, servicing, fuel etc. Each hour's flying is being charged at £65. It will be limited to 10-12 owners and, as such seems reasonable, but being new to this, is it a good deal?

http://flightdesign.com/index.php?page=product&amp...

[jjones]

i would not be happy with that.

10 or 12 shares?

is the flight school a share owner?

[mrloudly]

You normally join a syndicate to fly for the price of fuel + an engine fund. Obviously Ins, maint and hangarage come from monthlies. With this in mind, this does IMHO seem expensive...

I syndicated a Beagle Pup 150 a while back between six. Shares where £5000, Monthly was £90 and Flying was £70/hr She used to burn around 7.5 to 8 gals of 100LL an hour and was aerobatic
Makes a 912 powered CT at this figures sound a poor deal ;-) CT is an amazing aeroplane though, it's speed range is very impressive!!

[mattdaniels]

How much availability do you think there is going to be with 11 other people all wanting to book the aircraft out?
How often is the aircraft going to be in maintenance when you want to use it?

Personally I wouldn't want to be in a group that large and with people I don't know.

[Webby66]

It does appear that people buy into the group and never use the plane! Amazing! Or lose interest quickly! I think that availability will not be a problem really.

Looking at costs then it does appear on the high side and I think a bit more research is needed. It's part owned by the guy who is training me.

[VernalEquinox]

Webby66 said:

It does appear that people buy into the group and never use the plane! Amazing! Or lose interest quickly! I think that availability will not be a problem really.

Looking at costs then it does appear on the high side and I think a bit more research is needed. It's part owned by the guy who is training me.

There's nothing wrong with large syndicates per se, I'm part of a large one and it's very rare I can't get the aircraft when I want it. Most people just don't fly much, those that do book it in good time and actually talk to each other if someone wants it for something special. You can also buddy-up and fly together. We're also very considerate to each other and the retired folks tend to fly in the week, leaving the weekends free for the employed... that sort of thing.

If the school are retaining shares, do look at how many hours they're having it for. You'll find they want it most at the weekend, which is when probably when the shareholders also want it. This can work well or it can work badly, depends how many other aircraft they have access to.

Cost... the buy-in seems fair enough considering the cost of the aircraft (assuming you're getting a proportional share), the monthly I'd just about accept if it's full hull insurance for newbies plus a hangar but the hourly seems high. Is it a wet rate? We all know a 912 burns sod all petrol so where is the rest of the cash going? Is it into an engine/repair fund or into the school's pocket?

Is this aircraft in East London perchance?

[Webby66]

From my understanding, and only verbally, then the school are not retaining an interest. The monthly covers everything again only verbally though, there is nothing extra to pay!

No it's not in East London and I'd rather not say where at this stage!

[VernalEquinox]

As a guide, on two other 912-engined aircraft (C42 we've got and the Eurostar we're considering) the hourly is £35 wet. That's roughly £15 on fuel and £20 in the pot. £65 seems way high.

[jjones]

£100 a month to cover hangarage "etc" x 10 (shares) @ £100 a month =£1000!

even at £300 a month hangarage and £200 a month insurance (which to me is on the very high side and probably more like 50% these costs) that's still leaves £500 of a lot of "etc" per month

[VernalEquinox]

jjones said:

that's still leaves £500 of a lot of "etc" per month

I'd ask for a breakdown of where it's going.

The insurance could easily be that much or more for full hull, low hours pilots on a plane that breaks pretty catastrophically rather than bends a bit.

Hangar could be more than that, could be less, depends where it is. Are we talking 'nice hangar with power and light and posh doors' or 'usable shed' or 'poly tunnel on the grass'?

Maybe there's a landing card to be paid for, again depends where it is.

Any other costs? Is someone taking care of bringing Mogas to the field, perhaps? Is there a club membership to pay on top of these costs? Has a small child been recruited to wash it every weekend? Is the owner sitting back lining his pockets every month cos the hourly's so high he knows you'll only fly it half as much as you should...