Commercial pilots - what can you see of your own plane?
Discussion
Hi - I hope this isn't too much of a trite subject but due to my wife's utter terror at flying she has interested me in programmes such as 'seconds from disaster' which, despite her own fears she watches religiously (and no doubt reinforces). For PH fliers - she is the one screaming and crying on takeoff - apologies.
Obviously sometimes there are instances where, unfortunately and sadly the pilot flying simply has no chance to recover the aircraft - but I am struck by the instances whereby there is a 'bang' or a 'shock' or an 'engine issue' that is no immediate issue - but has the flight crew looking out of the cockpit windows to see what the problem is.
Sometimes this is obvious - flames from the engine etc but on others such as the El Al crash at Schipol, the flight crew are seemingly (and understandably) unable to cast a glance at the airworthiness of their aircraft following such a significant incident.
Had they been able to they might have been able to see the damage to the leading edge of the wing (though I appreciate they had a lot on their hands at the time)
Of course due to aerodynamics you can't have a bridge like a ship to see all - but the question I have is if you are on a 777/737/a320/a330 what can you ACTUALLY see? And would it benefit to have a simple £5 external camera to show things like the leading/trailing edge of the wing / tailplane etc?
Obviously sometimes there are instances where, unfortunately and sadly the pilot flying simply has no chance to recover the aircraft - but I am struck by the instances whereby there is a 'bang' or a 'shock' or an 'engine issue' that is no immediate issue - but has the flight crew looking out of the cockpit windows to see what the problem is.
Sometimes this is obvious - flames from the engine etc but on others such as the El Al crash at Schipol, the flight crew are seemingly (and understandably) unable to cast a glance at the airworthiness of their aircraft following such a significant incident.
Had they been able to they might have been able to see the damage to the leading edge of the wing (though I appreciate they had a lot on their hands at the time)
Of course due to aerodynamics you can't have a bridge like a ship to see all - but the question I have is if you are on a 777/737/a320/a330 what can you ACTUALLY see? And would it benefit to have a simple £5 external camera to show things like the leading/trailing edge of the wing / tailplane etc?
Ever stuck your head out of an object carrying you and a few hundred miles an hour? 
I haven't... and I don't intend to.
On the jets you're lucky if you can see a wing tip. There's no chance of seeing an engine. I think the 380 and 777 have cameras mounted on the tail but I don't know if they are used in what we call 'failure diagnosis'.
It comes down to what the kite is telling you, the information it gives you via its monitoring systems, By and large that's enough. If there was a need to visually see what's going on, the regulators would have stipulated it.
When it comes to wings (damage) etc, there's no reason not to have one of the pilots go back into the cabin to have a gander (time permitting) as they are not really monitored by computers. Engines are monitored, so no real problem there. Aside from that I would be getting cabin crew reports from what if anything they have seen/smelled/heard.
So what can we see? Not a lot. I can see the wing tips on the 320 and about 1/3 of the front of the wing. I can see the top of the nose cone...that's about it.
I haven't... and I don't intend to.On the jets you're lucky if you can see a wing tip. There's no chance of seeing an engine. I think the 380 and 777 have cameras mounted on the tail but I don't know if they are used in what we call 'failure diagnosis'.
It comes down to what the kite is telling you, the information it gives you via its monitoring systems, By and large that's enough. If there was a need to visually see what's going on, the regulators would have stipulated it.
When it comes to wings (damage) etc, there's no reason not to have one of the pilots go back into the cabin to have a gander (time permitting) as they are not really monitored by computers. Engines are monitored, so no real problem there. Aside from that I would be getting cabin crew reports from what if anything they have seen/smelled/heard.
So what can we see? Not a lot. I can see the wing tips on the 320 and about 1/3 of the front of the wing. I can see the top of the nose cone...that's about it.
I wonder how feasible it would be to design in the ability to detect punctures in the aircraft skin. They must have looked at this sort of thing after say the columbia, where the warning indications started with 'you have a puncture' rather than 'you have a hole in your wing'.
I'm envisaging a star trek esque diagram of the aircraft with bits in red if they are punctured or not reading.
I'm envisaging a star trek esque diagram of the aircraft with bits in red if they are punctured or not reading.
If everything goes completely tits I'll get a good view of my aeroplane while descending under a parachute canopy after I've jumped out. I'll probably see most of it, although it'll either be on fire/have bits missing/both.
This chap didn't get such a good view of his aeroplane as jumping out would have resulted in him nutting a bridge. He did survive though, despite a bout of deceleration sickness.
This chap didn't get such a good view of his aeroplane as jumping out would have resulted in him nutting a bridge. He did survive though, despite a bout of deceleration sickness.
B777 - nothing at all!
There are cameras, one which looks at the nose wheel, and tail mounted ones looking at each wing. They only who we inboard wing section, their purpose being to show you the position of the main gear.
I sincerely wish we had wingtip cameras. Aircraft with wingspans of the 777-300ER/A380/747 really are an airport threat, there are many airports where two such aircraft can't bypass one another on adjacent major taxiways. JFK taxiways A & B springs to mind, which are the main transit ways, one having a clockwise traffic flow, the other anticlockwise.
There are cameras, one which looks at the nose wheel, and tail mounted ones looking at each wing. They only who we inboard wing section, their purpose being to show you the position of the main gear.
I sincerely wish we had wingtip cameras. Aircraft with wingspans of the 777-300ER/A380/747 really are an airport threat, there are many airports where two such aircraft can't bypass one another on adjacent major taxiways. JFK taxiways A & B springs to mind, which are the main transit ways, one having a clockwise traffic flow, the other anticlockwise.
Edited by Testaburger on Sunday 29th June 07:01
The plane is designed with not having to look out of the window in mind - lots of lights are placed in front of the pilot so he will know without looking out of the window if the engine has fallen off.
I know she won't really appreciate the analogy, but ask her how she knows if she has a puncture on her car? Does she lean out of the window to look?
Obviously this won't work if she's the type of person who would happily drive along the motorway for three hours on the rim because she had no idea there was a puncture...
I know she won't really appreciate the analogy, but ask her how she knows if she has a puncture on her car? Does she lean out of the window to look?
Obviously this won't work if she's the type of person who would happily drive along the motorway for three hours on the rim because she had no idea there was a puncture...
My ex-Boss' pilot told me that the only thing stopping his G550 from being a single pilot a/c was an inability to see both wingtips from the LH seat. Not sure if it is quite that simple but he should know I guess. I think on his PC-12 he could see both so didn't need a second pilot when that one was used.
5150 said:
On the 747 you can see the outboard engine and wingtip - still hard to get the perspective tho when negotiating tight taxiways . . . .
blimey.its hard enough just to get a decent view of the back of the trailer in my wagon via the wing mirrors. , and thats approx 50ft. where are the wing mirrors on a jumbo
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