Becoming a pilot, career alternatives and motivation....
Discussion
It all started when my Granddad used to take me plane spotting, London City Aiport, Gatwick airport, Heathrow, Biggin Hill Air Show. I fell in love with everything about flying, thousands of hours spend on flight simulator online doing flights across Europe upholding as much realism as possible.
I have 8 hours towards my PPL, I flew at Biggin Hill Aiport (EGKB) in a few different C152's, amazing experience. I purchased all material needed in order to pass the exam, but then,I ran out of cash.
At this time I was 17, living at home (Council home) and had just lost my job, very naive. Since then everything has been on hold, I've worked different sales jobs and keep losing them once my motivation goes, and haven't flown for years, I'm now 20.
I don't have a home, we don't have a home, a home that we own is more accurate. There's no-one who we can use their house as security for a loan, and scholarships are few and far between. I'm making lots of excuses, but there honestly is nothing else I'd rather do, I splashed out £200/h for my flying lessons and didn't bat an eyelid at the cost, the smell of jet fuel, the Citation 550's coming in on final approach, I didn't care about the huge expense, the problem is I don't have it.
I'm not sure where to go with this, everyone says follow your dreams, but how can I justify finishing my PPL, building hours, night rating and then doing my CPL? I have to give my mum money to help her out, I'm currently unemployed and the pressure is now building for me to move out!
This thread has no real direction, I'm venting my frustrations, as my cars in the garage for two weeks I'd usually go for a blast to cool down but I can't so here I am. Whether or not I get paid to fly, I'll still be getting my PPL for recreational purposes, but I can't get excited about anything, nothing at all.
And the there's getting on the property ladder, I don't know, so many thoughts going through my mind right this second its crazy. Forget man maths, for me its life maths, will everything fall into place, or am I going to grow old and regret not following my dreams, I have no idea.
Thanks for reading if you did, any comments or motivation or donations much appreciated *wink*, just kidding!
Anthony,
I have 8 hours towards my PPL, I flew at Biggin Hill Aiport (EGKB) in a few different C152's, amazing experience. I purchased all material needed in order to pass the exam, but then,I ran out of cash.
At this time I was 17, living at home (Council home) and had just lost my job, very naive. Since then everything has been on hold, I've worked different sales jobs and keep losing them once my motivation goes, and haven't flown for years, I'm now 20.
I don't have a home, we don't have a home, a home that we own is more accurate. There's no-one who we can use their house as security for a loan, and scholarships are few and far between. I'm making lots of excuses, but there honestly is nothing else I'd rather do, I splashed out £200/h for my flying lessons and didn't bat an eyelid at the cost, the smell of jet fuel, the Citation 550's coming in on final approach, I didn't care about the huge expense, the problem is I don't have it.
I'm not sure where to go with this, everyone says follow your dreams, but how can I justify finishing my PPL, building hours, night rating and then doing my CPL? I have to give my mum money to help her out, I'm currently unemployed and the pressure is now building for me to move out!
This thread has no real direction, I'm venting my frustrations, as my cars in the garage for two weeks I'd usually go for a blast to cool down but I can't so here I am. Whether or not I get paid to fly, I'll still be getting my PPL for recreational purposes, but I can't get excited about anything, nothing at all.
And the there's getting on the property ladder, I don't know, so many thoughts going through my mind right this second its crazy. Forget man maths, for me its life maths, will everything fall into place, or am I going to grow old and regret not following my dreams, I have no idea.
Thanks for reading if you did, any comments or motivation or donations much appreciated *wink*, just kidding!
Anthony,
Have you looked at working at a local airfield? It's obviously aviation that gets you going so why not try and get involved in it. You never know you might make some friends that'll be able to help out a bit with the PPL plan maybe a bit of discounted flying.
I have two friends who have been accepted into easyjets cadet pilot scheme recently so there are airlines recruiting in the uk if you have shown an interest in flying.
I have two friends who have been accepted into easyjets cadet pilot scheme recently so there are airlines recruiting in the uk if you have shown an interest in flying.
£69,000 against a home, so only my nan/grandad could help in that regards, good shout on working at a local airfield. Motoring of course gets me going, but that's in a completely different way, this is my life. I turned 20 May just gone, and the years are flying by. I did look into that scheme a last year, but set it aside as its the funds which can't make sense in my head, I'm not shocked by the huge amount of money involved, I'm worried about how I'm going to get them!
It's a risk but the failure rate is incredibly low.
Not that I'm biased but you could try air traffic. No bond required, fairly low failure rate if you go for an aerodrome/approach rating. Many of my colleagues fly, a few commercially still. One of the friends who went to easyjet was a controller until very recently. The pay in ATC helped fund his flying addiction until he could get a job at a commercial carrier.
Not that I'm biased but you could try air traffic. No bond required, fairly low failure rate if you go for an aerodrome/approach rating. Many of my colleagues fly, a few commercially still. One of the friends who went to easyjet was a controller until very recently. The pay in ATC helped fund his flying addiction until he could get a job at a commercial carrier.
Life is short....if you look up at everything that goes overhead, wandering what it is and where it's going.....you're either a sad tosser or a pilot at heart 
There's lots of ways into commercial aviation (or military aviation for that matter), get nuts deep into pprune and if that doesn't put you off, go for it. Lots of people are attracted by the supposed glamour of aviation as a job and are subsequently put off by how bloody difficult it is to get a break. IMHO the only difference between those who make it and those who don't, is how much they really, really want it. A good buddy of mine with almost no academic qualifications made it into longhaul with a legacy carrier, the only only one out of 30 highly qualified pilots in his atpl class, by getting arguably the worst job going at his chosen airline doing data entry, by networking and badgering the various wheels until he finally got his break.
Don't let your background hold you back, find a way and make it happen....good luck!
There's lots of ways into commercial aviation (or military aviation for that matter), get nuts deep into pprune and if that doesn't put you off, go for it. Lots of people are attracted by the supposed glamour of aviation as a job and are subsequently put off by how bloody difficult it is to get a break. IMHO the only difference between those who make it and those who don't, is how much they really, really want it. A good buddy of mine with almost no academic qualifications made it into longhaul with a legacy carrier, the only only one out of 30 highly qualified pilots in his atpl class, by getting arguably the worst job going at his chosen airline doing data entry, by networking and badgering the various wheels until he finally got his break.
Don't let your background hold you back, find a way and make it happen....good luck!
What a coincidence - I come on here to suggest something, and not only has another controller already done so, but he was on the same intake as me at the college. Not sure that I agree that aerodrome/approach is an 'easy' option though...
You've got age on your side OP. Have you got any interest in the RAF? You'll get paid for probably the best aviation training available, and have some enviable experience if you want to move into commercial later on. Have a look at the West Atlantic Cadet Scheme too. It's a proper scholarship, so you won't have to pay up front.
You've got age on your side OP. Have you got any interest in the RAF? You'll get paid for probably the best aviation training available, and have some enviable experience if you want to move into commercial later on. Have a look at the West Atlantic Cadet Scheme too. It's a proper scholarship, so you won't have to pay up front.
Don't try the RAF unless you really want to be in the RAF. You need to actually want to be a serviceman first and foremost. It's not a free or easy way to pilot training and military pay is, frankly, awful for the sacrifices and hours required.
Fortunately I failed at that during officer training but one of my best friends didn't and flies Typhoons for a living. He's reasonably happy but is wife less so. They have a little girl as of this year and is away from her again at the moment. It's not the flying which bothers him (or his wife) but the secondary and teriary duties expected of an officer. A major differentiator though is that he has no particular interest in driving an airliner in straight lines in 5 years when he's due out. He has an engineering degree so I've been trying to persuade him to come work with me and be home (actually, to have a home instead of having to move every 3 years) every evening getting paid much more than he is now - plenty to fund private flying.
If you're single, extremely well adjusted and value the team spirit above all else the RAF could be for you. The fact that it seems to be commercial flying that appeals suggests the RAF would not suit the OP - and failure rates do exist there. They're also well used to applicants planning to use it as a stepping stone to commercial flying and the well established selection boards frankly can see straight through that.
CTC McAlpine were running ab initio schemes to frozen ATPL level a few years back. Are they still on the go?
Fortunately I failed at that during officer training but one of my best friends didn't and flies Typhoons for a living. He's reasonably happy but is wife less so. They have a little girl as of this year and is away from her again at the moment. It's not the flying which bothers him (or his wife) but the secondary and teriary duties expected of an officer. A major differentiator though is that he has no particular interest in driving an airliner in straight lines in 5 years when he's due out. He has an engineering degree so I've been trying to persuade him to come work with me and be home (actually, to have a home instead of having to move every 3 years) every evening getting paid much more than he is now - plenty to fund private flying.
If you're single, extremely well adjusted and value the team spirit above all else the RAF could be for you. The fact that it seems to be commercial flying that appeals suggests the RAF would not suit the OP - and failure rates do exist there. They're also well used to applicants planning to use it as a stepping stone to commercial flying and the well established selection boards frankly can see straight through that.
CTC McAlpine were running ab initio schemes to frozen ATPL level a few years back. Are they still on the go?
jamieduff1981 said:
CTC McAlpine were running ab initio schemes to frozen ATPL level a few years back. Are they still on the go?
Pretty sure they are. There's also the BA scheme, but the academic requirements are fairly high. Air Atlantique used to take on ab initio recruits, the OP should enquire whether that still happens; they were given the old school treatment of being used as cheap labour to sweep hangars and polish aeroplanes, but getting taught to fly L188s and DC3s for free was a fair swap for the labour really.Details of which companies are offering what schemes will be on PPRUNE I would imagine so a look there may help, although take some of what's posted with a pinch of salt, just like PH really.
Siko said:
Life is short....if you look up at everything that goes overhead, wandering what it is and where it's going.....you're either a sad tosser ...
Why?I love aeroplanes, aviation and flight.
Bad eyesight always precluded me from embarking on an aviation career and, like the OP, lack of funds when I was younger prevented me from flying for leisure - although I too also have about 8 hours on Cessna 152s.
Not everybody who would like to be a pilot can achieve that wish.
However, I still love aircraft and their history - and I ALWAYS look up at aircraft passing overhead.
Prawo Jazdy said:
What a coincidence - I come on here to suggest something, and not only has another controller already done so, but he was on the same intake as me at the college. Not sure that I agree that aerodrome/approach is an 'easy' option though...
I was?Not easy but the college pass rate and unit validation rates are higher. And you get natural light. That's the difference between an aerodrome and area control, rickets
Eric Mc said:
Why?
I love aeroplanes, aviation and flight.
Bad eyesight always precluded me from embarking on an aviation career and, like the OP, lack of funds when I was younger prevented me from flying for leisure - although I too also have about 8 hours on Cessna 152s.
Not everybody who would like to be a pilot can achieve that wish.
However, I still love aircraft and their history - and I ALWAYS look up at aircraft passing overhead.
Just a joke Eric....I count myself firmly in both camps and very fortunate to be making a living as a pilot. I love aeroplanes, aviation and flight.
Bad eyesight always precluded me from embarking on an aviation career and, like the OP, lack of funds when I was younger prevented me from flying for leisure - although I too also have about 8 hours on Cessna 152s.
Not everybody who would like to be a pilot can achieve that wish.
However, I still love aircraft and their history - and I ALWAYS look up at aircraft passing overhead.
I know - but I do find jibes against "enthusiasts" a bit tiresome. Even if meant as a joke it does reinforce stereotypes - and probably underlines a latent genuine negative opinion.
I do wish people made positive comments about those who love a subject - whatever it is - rather than derogatory comments - even if humourously intended.
My mum used to say "Half joking, whole earnest".
I do wish people made positive comments about those who love a subject - whatever it is - rather than derogatory comments - even if humourously intended.
My mum used to say "Half joking, whole earnest".
IntriguedUser said:
£69,000 against a home, so only my nan/grandad could help in that regards, good shout on working at a local airfield. Motoring of course gets me going, but that's in a completely different way, this is my life. I turned 20 May just gone, and the years are flying by. I did look into that scheme a last year, but set it aside as its the funds which can't make sense in my head, I'm not shocked by the huge amount of money involved, I'm worried about how I'm going to get them!
You're only 20 for goodness sake. I remember how impatient I was at that age, but honestly, you've got plenty of time to make it happen. A friend of mine got his CPL in his mid-30's, that was the earliest he could afford it, and that was after 12 plus years of having a reasonably well paid job. He was an aerial camera operator in a helicopter before that, and still does it on a freelance basis to supplement his meagre pilot's wages (he's with a budget carrier).
What I'm trying to say is, you've plenty of time yet. Get a job of some sort, and start saving. Ideally you want a job that's relevant and interesting to you, but to be fair, even stacking shelves at a supermarket would earn you a reasonable amount, and at least it looks like you're doing everything you can to make it happen.
When you finally get qualified, and start going for interviews, the more you can demonstrate how hard you've worked to get qualified etc, the better, in my view.
I took a cursory glance at some sort of textbook for pilots once. I can't recall exactly what it was but it was enough to put me right off; my arithmetic is pretty good but some of the mathematical concepts that seem to be required were way over my (admittedly somewhat empty) head.
I think I'd better stick to airshows.
Best of luck OP.
I think I'd better stick to airshows.
Best of luck OP.
This should re-open in a few months. No house required to guarantee a loan, BA will act as guarantor
http://www.britishairways.com/careers/futurepilot/...
http://www.britishairways.com/careers/futurepilot/...
Its not what you want to hear but there are good jobs in the Defence/Aviation sector that could be worth pursuing, BAE, Babcock, QinetiQ, Marshall, Hunter etc etc etc its a foot in the right industry and from there you dont know what opportunities will arise. Dont pin everything on being a pilot, having meetings routinely disrupted by a pair of Tornados taking off never fails to amuse me...
Roy Lime said:
I took a cursory glance at some sort of textbook for pilots once. I can't recall exactly what it was but it was enough to put me right off; my arithmetic is pretty good but some of the mathematical concepts that seem to be required were way over my (admittedly somewhat empty) head.
I think I'd better stick to airshows.
Best of luck OP.
These mathematical concepts that you speak of aren't all that difficult. All you need is a GSCE in maths and bit of wit about you. Let's put it this way, if William and Harry can pass the exams and do the calculations, any monkey should be able to.I think I'd better stick to airshows.
Best of luck OP.
One of my cousins who was in a good financial position (at the time) put his son through PPL to ATPL course here and then 9 months over in the USA.
But, without an airline scheme behind him all his doors were closed to any airline job. Even freight jobs were hard to come by 3-4 years ago. He got very frustrated and ended up back at home in the UK as a PPL instructor at a local airfield trying to earn a living and build hours etc.
Couldn't really earn a decent living from that and got very depressed, and has now ended up in air traffic control instead.
But, without an airline scheme behind him all his doors were closed to any airline job. Even freight jobs were hard to come by 3-4 years ago. He got very frustrated and ended up back at home in the UK as a PPL instructor at a local airfield trying to earn a living and build hours etc.
Couldn't really earn a decent living from that and got very depressed, and has now ended up in air traffic control instead.
I agree with bits of the posts above. The content isn't too difficult with a reasonable GCSE/AS Level knowledge of Maths/Physics. The difficult really lies in absorbing the sheer volume of information over the time period that makes the course cost effective. In this respect, there's no substitute to burying your head in the books for the time period required.
In true British fashion, the ATPL exams are quite in-depth when compared the practical knowledge required to do the job. The USA have a more pragmatic approach to the ground school side of things whereas we seem to require our pilots to build, repair, aviate and navigate a piston or jet aircraft from circa 1970 to 1982. They're the hoops and it's your choice whether to jump through them.
Starting now and knowing what I know I wouldn't be entertaining becoming a commercial pilot unless I had a job to go to at the end of it. The old adage of work hard early definitely applies and if you decide it's what you truly want then don't waste anytime at all. Talking BA specifically, it may take you a few goes to get in and each one will take a year or so. The BA procedure is different to most other assessments and requires an in-depth knowledge of the tests/interviews that you'll face. I believe that CTC will also arrange for a loan guarantee as well, but I'm not totally sure.
The BA scheme is about the best one out there. But, whether your loan is guaranteed by BA or not, you cannot afford to fail. At 20 years old it will need an old head on young shoulders and so if you have any doubts about your motivation, maturity or ability to pass the course then you shouldn't be considering it. It's also worth considering whether you will like a longhaul or shorthaul lifestyle. I'd only really recommend BA for longhaul, but that's me.
In true British fashion, the ATPL exams are quite in-depth when compared the practical knowledge required to do the job. The USA have a more pragmatic approach to the ground school side of things whereas we seem to require our pilots to build, repair, aviate and navigate a piston or jet aircraft from circa 1970 to 1982. They're the hoops and it's your choice whether to jump through them.
Starting now and knowing what I know I wouldn't be entertaining becoming a commercial pilot unless I had a job to go to at the end of it. The old adage of work hard early definitely applies and if you decide it's what you truly want then don't waste anytime at all. Talking BA specifically, it may take you a few goes to get in and each one will take a year or so. The BA procedure is different to most other assessments and requires an in-depth knowledge of the tests/interviews that you'll face. I believe that CTC will also arrange for a loan guarantee as well, but I'm not totally sure.
The BA scheme is about the best one out there. But, whether your loan is guaranteed by BA or not, you cannot afford to fail. At 20 years old it will need an old head on young shoulders and so if you have any doubts about your motivation, maturity or ability to pass the course then you shouldn't be considering it. It's also worth considering whether you will like a longhaul or shorthaul lifestyle. I'd only really recommend BA for longhaul, but that's me.
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