Why can't Virgin trains operate a service on time??

[DavidJG]

So, trying to cut down my crazy business mileage, I've started travelling by train. I live inv Shropshire, and travel a lot for work.

Most services I use are pretty good. Arriva Wales run pretty much to time, East Coast can get me from Edinburgh to London with no problems at all. Even London Midland aren't too bad.

Recently though I've had to use Virgin from Edinburgh to Crewe with connections from Crewe to home. I'd say I've missed 50+ % of connections in Crewe because Virgin seem incapable of running to their timetable.

The question is, as all the other train operators seem able to run to time, why is it that Virgin can't?

Guess we can hope that they'll not keep the West Coast franchise for too much longer!

[rs1952]

Well here's one that seems to have run to time today:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y81136/2014/...

And another one (more or less )

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y81732/2014/...

Have those two to be going on with

[Shaman]

The time tabling is that tight on the WCML that any slight delay has a compounded effect - some failures may only delay two trains for 4 minutes but the reactionary delay can mount up especially around Manchester/London/Liverpool

[MitchT]

I used to use Virgin trains between Leeds and Birmingham intermittently over the course of many years. Always 20 minutes late, without fail! To be fair, since Cross Country took over it's been the same, so I suspect it's the shabbiness of the route rather than the operator.

[DavidJG]

Well, following Tuesday night's delays, Wednesday night was worse - even later arriving into Crewe.

And this morning, 1/2 hour late into Edinburgh. . . .

I think my plan to use trains more is probably over, and I'm going to have to go back to the car again. At least with the car I can actually get to my destination on time!

[alangla]

IMX the big problem is getting stuck behind slow moving diesel hauled freight trains climbing Beattock or Shap. There should be a rule that anything heavy going over those two between, say, 7am & 10pm has to be electrically hauled or have assisting locos to maintain a minimum 50mph up the hill. Once you've been delayed by one of them on the way south, usually it's game over, you're then stuck behind other trains, worse if you get stuck behind a stopping train in the WM. Going north, it's losing time & getting stuck behind Scotrail stopping trains north of Carstairs.

[mph1977]

MitchT said:

I used to use Virgin trains between Leeds and Birmingham intermittently over the course of many years. Always 20 minutes late, without fail! To be fair, since Cross Country took over it's been the same, so I suspect it's the shabbiness of the route rather than the operator.

XC is bit of a poison chalice regardless of who operates the franchise , they are allways lodgers on the 'local' railways' metal ... while the signallers might hold the all sheds shed for an XC to keep it;s path they aren't going to delay 'their' express services for an XC train to make up a delay someone else's railway causes ( e.g. the leeds to Birmingham stretch you mention passes from Mainly East Coast through EMT/ MML land into LM/WCML land... up to a point why is an East midlands train signaller / planner going to hold up 'his' London express to allow XC to make up time casued by a East Coast cockup ...

[theboss]

I have to say... as someone who also lives in Shropshire and works *everywhere else* in the country... I tend to just jump in the car when I want Edinburgh or Glasgow. I don't think the Midlands to Edinburgh services are much good. I was running late for a concert in April and did Much Wenlock to Edinburgh city centre in 3.5 hours - the roads are good when reasonably clear.

Edited by theboss on Thursday 7th August 16:02

[mattdaniels]

DavidJG said:

The question is, as all the other train operators seem able to run to time, why is it that Virgin can't?

Guess we can hope that they'll not keep the West Coast franchise for too much longer!

I use Virgin Trains most weekdays to get to London and they are almost always on time if not a minute or two early arriving. Personally I'm delighted they have been awarded an extension on the franchise. The London Midland service is not a patch on Virgin. LM's excuse of a first class carriage is woeful.

[mph1977]

theboss said:

I have to say... as someone who also lives in Shropshire and works *everywhere else* in the country... I tend to just jump in the car when I want Edinburgh or Glasgow. I don't think the Midlands to Edinburgh services are much good. I was running late for a concert in April and did Much Wenlock to Edinburgh city centre in 3.5 hours - the roads are good when reasonably clear.

Edited by theboss on Thursday 7th August 16:02

(west) midlands to Edinburgh direct is the XC poisoned chalice of of the NE- SW route ...

alternatively it means going to glasgow and across or travelling across to Grantham, Dncaster or York ( by which point you may as well stay on the XC or TPE train that took you this far) to pick up East Coast services

[Rude Girl]

mattdaniels said:

LM's excuse of a first class carriage is woeful.

To be fair, the price of an annual first class season ticket Rugby-Euston:

Virgin: £12,516
London Midland: £8,432

[mph1977]

mattdaniels said:

I use Virgin Trains most weekdays to get to London and they are almost always on time if not a minute or two early arriving. Personally I'm delighted they have been awarded an extension on the franchise. The London Midland service is not a patch on Virgin. LM's excuse of a first class carriage is woeful.

LM is a local and regional operator, VWC is long distance operator

the UK doesn;t have the rigid nomenclature common elsewhere in europe of local, regional and Intercity trains (which is good to some extent becasue it allows you to jump on TPE forthe same price northern for Leeds -huddersfield e.g. or jump on ECor northern for leeds -donny or leeds -wakefield )

[alangla]

mph1977 said:

theboss said:

I have to say... as someone who also lives in Shropshire and works *everywhere else* in the country... I tend to just jump in the car when I want Edinburgh or Glasgow. I don't think the Midlands to Edinburgh services are much good. I was running late for a concert in April and did Much Wenlock to Edinburgh city centre in 3.5 hours - the roads are good when reasonably clear.

Edited by theboss on Thursday 7th August 16:02

(west) midlands to Edinburgh direct is the XC poisoned chalice of of the NE- SW route ...

alternatively it means going to glasgow and across or travelling across to Grantham, Dncaster or York ( by which point you may as well stay on the XC or TPE train that took you this far) to pick up East Coast services

Virgin West Coast do a direct (London) - Birmingham - Wolves - Crewe - Preston - Carlisle - (via, but not stopping at Carstairs) - Edinburgh train every couple of hours - I assumed that was what the OP was referring to.

[DavidJG]

alangla said:

Virgin West Coast do a direct (London) - Birmingham - Wolves - Crewe - Preston - Carlisle - (via, but not stopping at Carstairs) - Edinburgh train every couple of hours - I assumed that was what the OP was referring to.

That is the service I was referring to!

Being fair, last night they got me into Crewe absolutely on time. If only they could do this every time!!

What worries me is the thought of Much Wenlock (not far from me) to Edinburgh in 3.5 hours by car. That's over 300 miles - and includes speed cameras, and you'd need to average about 88 leptons. I like my driving license too much to risk that one!!

[mattdaniels]

DavidJG said:

What worries me is the thought of Much Wenlock (not far from me) to Edinburgh in 3.5 hours by car. That's over 300 miles - and includes speed cameras, and you'd need to average about 88 leptons. I like my driving license too much to risk that one!!

So if you did that journey by car, and arrived late, perhaps getting held up by traffic along the way too, would it be your fault for not being able to get to your destination on time?

[Rick101]

I think you have to take the rough with the smooth. Sometime there will be delays but be assured, EVERYBODY involved will be doing all they can to get you to your destination on time. Don't think for a second that people aren't bothered. Every delay will be investigated, even 1 minute will be attributed to someone. I think the NR compensation was about £200-300 per min last time I looked. Major failures can quite easily lead to mANY thousands on min of delay. Even a simple delay in Scotland in the morning could well be still be knocking on and causing issues through the evening peak in London.

Don't forget you are entitled for delay compensation in some circumstances, you won't get that in the car.
http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/contact/

[theboss]

DavidJG said:

alangla said:

Virgin West Coast do a direct (London) - Birmingham - Wolves - Crewe - Preston - Carlisle - (via, but not stopping at Carstairs) - Edinburgh train every couple of hours - I assumed that was what the OP was referring to.

That is the service I was referring to!

Being fair, last night they got me into Crewe absolutely on time. If only they could do this every time!!

What worries me is the thought of Much Wenlock (not far from me) to Edinburgh in 3.5 hours by car. That's over 300 miles - and includes speed cameras, and you'd need to average about 88 leptons. I like my driving license too much to risk that one!!

I had planned to have a nice trip up ok the train but the timings were shocking - this was for a Sunday morning - and I simply couldn't guarantee I could be there for 1pm unless I left at about 8 in the morning - we were dependent on a babysitter arriving and I felt too exposed to the risk that she turned up late, we missed our train and we'd have been screwed. So I decided to drive.

As it happens we were predictably late setting off, but in the car I could make up for it. I didn't mean to get up there quite as fast as I did. The funny thing is that besides the high cruising speed through talivan territory on the M6/M74, it only felt as though I was merely 'keeping up' with the locals on the A702 - a storming run indeed.

Also I think its a bit less than 300...

Edited by theboss on Saturday 9th August 21:27

[Countdown]

mattdaniels said:

I use Virgin Trains most weekdays to get to London and they are almost always on time if not a minute or two early arriving. Personally I'm delighted they have been awarded an extension on the franchise. The London Midland service is not a patch on Virgin. LM's excuse of a first class carriage is woeful.

Same here. It's a world apart from the Trans-Pennine service.

First class is a ripoff though.

[sparks85]

Delay minute costs vary on a whole range of factors, including line, frequency, franchise agreements etc.

[POORCARDEALER]

Number of times I have bought a 1st class ticket and there have been no seats in 1st on Virgin is a joke, they need to put more coaches on.