Airline 'spare' aircraft
Discussion
I saw something earlier saying a BA 777 had hit a hangar at LHR but there would be no disruption to their flight schedule which got me thinking. Obviously planes have unscheduled faults which need fixing so you need a way to run the flight that one was meant to take, but you don't want planes sitting on the ground 'just in case'.
I was on a delayed Monarch flight back from Lanzarotte once, which ended up being on an ancient A300 as a replacement aircraft so I guess there's some contingency capacity somewhere to call on for most airlines. I sincerely home the knackered 767 I was on coming back from New York a few weeks back was a spare too, or United are even more shoddy than I thought to be running planes in their old livery which are 20+ years old!
So, how many excess planes do airlines generally have? With vans and trucks you just hire them when one of yours breaks, but I guess this isn't as simple with aircraft. Any ideas?
I was on a delayed Monarch flight back from Lanzarotte once, which ended up being on an ancient A300 as a replacement aircraft so I guess there's some contingency capacity somewhere to call on for most airlines. I sincerely home the knackered 767 I was on coming back from New York a few weeks back was a spare too, or United are even more shoddy than I thought to be running planes in their old livery which are 20+ years old!
So, how many excess planes do airlines generally have? With vans and trucks you just hire them when one of yours breaks, but I guess this isn't as simple with aircraft. Any ideas?
jamiebae said:
I saw something earlier saying a BA 777 had hit a hangar at LHR but there would be no disruption to their flight schedule which got me thinking. Obviously planes have unscheduled faults which need fixing so you need a way to run the flight that one was meant to take, but you don't want planes sitting on the ground 'just in case'.
I was on a delayed Monarch flight back from Lanzarotte once, which ended up being on an ancient A300 as a replacement aircraft so I guess there's some contingency capacity somewhere to call on for most airlines. I sincerely home the knackered 767 I was on coming back from New York a few weeks back was a spare too, or United are even more shoddy than I thought to be running planes in their old livery which are 20+ years old!
So, how many excess planes do airlines generally have? With vans and trucks you just hire them when one of yours breaks, but I guess this isn't as simple with aircraft. Any ideas?
It depends.I was on a delayed Monarch flight back from Lanzarotte once, which ended up being on an ancient A300 as a replacement aircraft so I guess there's some contingency capacity somewhere to call on for most airlines. I sincerely home the knackered 767 I was on coming back from New York a few weeks back was a spare too, or United are even more shoddy than I thought to be running planes in their old livery which are 20+ years old!
So, how many excess planes do airlines generally have? With vans and trucks you just hire them when one of yours breaks, but I guess this isn't as simple with aircraft. Any ideas?
For example on BA's LCY->JFK routes, BA only has two A318s. There are no others like them in the fleet, so when one goes tech, services are cancelled and passengers get rearranged onto LHR->JFK services.
For other long haul routes, BA has 40+ 777s, 42 (going to 39 this year) 747s, which can all pretty much do the same thing, for the majority of BA's routes. As such there's almost always a plane or two out for maintenance, and juggling operations to accommodate a plane going unexpectedly out of service is more straightforward.
That said this applies to a plane going tech at heathrow. If something goes wrong further afield, you will be delayed.
The main maintenance hubs will have a stock cupboard which would be a spare aircraft or 2, plus suppliers like Rolls Royce who sell engines on a "power by the hour" basis, will have spare engines waiting to be flown to where they are needed. If you look carefully, there's a spare position on many wings for a spare engine to be carried if need be.
I think that I've had to fly on substitute aircraft twice. At Gatwick and London City - both with BA and both times I ended up on charter aircraft.
I guess that the schedulers have a list of phone numbers to call in case they need helping out. It's not just the aircraft that need sorting, it probably involves the crew as well. At London City, an Embraer was replaced by a BAE 146 and at Gatwick, the original 737 was eventually replaced by a 757.
I guess that the schedulers have a list of phone numbers to call in case they need helping out. It's not just the aircraft that need sorting, it probably involves the crew as well. At London City, an Embraer was replaced by a BAE 146 and at Gatwick, the original 737 was eventually replaced by a 757.
Pit Pony said:
The main maintenance hubs will have a stock cupboard which would be a spare aircraft or 2, plus suppliers like Rolls Royce who sell engines on a "power by the hour" basis, will have spare engines waiting to be flown to where they are needed. If you look carefully, there's a spare position on many wings for a spare engine to be carried if need be.
Like so:
Simpo Two said:
Blimey. And Pay-As-You-Go engines too, double blimey!
Power by the hour is very common. Even the RAF charged the Canadian Lancaster power by the hour for the loan of the merlin engine last summer. Although collection of the engine from Canada was provided FOC as a herc was in the area. Simpo Two said:
Blimey. And Pay-As-You-Go engines too, double blimey!
When you think about it, it gets over the historical joke of making more money from spares, then new engines, and doubling your profit if your engine design has particularly s
t reliability. All the airline wants is a fixed cost per journey, they don't want the stock holding.
jamiebae said:
I sincerely home the knackered 767 I was on coming back from New York a few weeks back was a spare too, or United are even more shoddy than I thought to be running planes in their old livery which are 20+ years old!
I flew to Shanghai last year, and the United 747 we could see from our gate looked very tired: quite dirty with flacking paint. Of course the people waiting to get on it couldn't see that from their gate jamiebae said:
or United are even more shoddy than I thought to be running planes in their old livery which are 20+ years old!
Not doubting their shoddiness but is 20+yrs old an issue?I was on a BA flight into Seattle a few years ago and bad weather forced us to make a long approach from over Everett, the Pilot came on the intercom and told "the passengers on the right hand side will now have a good view of the Boeing factory where this plane was built 30years ago..." Not entirely sure it was confidence inspiring given the ice storm in progress.
Also the last trip back from Cape Town on one of BA's tired 747's made me question its age, the amount of silicon sealant holding the rearmost toilet and catering area together was mind boggling!
scubadude said:
Also the last trip back from Cape Town on one of BA's tired 747's made me question its age, the amount of silicon sealant holding the rearmost toilet and catering area together was mind boggling!
No point in chucking money on a plane that will be retired in the not too distant.jamiebae said:
I saw something earlier saying a BA 777 had hit a hangar at LHR but there would be no disruption to their flight schedule which got me thinking. Obviously planes have unscheduled faults which need fixing so you need a way to run the flight that one was meant to take, but you don't want planes sitting on the ground 'just in case'.
I was on a delayed Monarch flight back from Lanzarotte once, which ended up being on an ancient A300 as a replacement aircraft so I guess there's some contingency capacity somewhere to call on for most airlines. I sincerely home the knackered 767 I was on coming back from New York a few weeks back was a spare too, or United are even more shoddy than I thought to be running planes in their old livery which are 20+ years old!
So, how many excess planes do airlines generally have? With vans and trucks you just hire them when one of yours breaks, but I guess this isn't as simple with aircraft. Any ideas?
The other thing is, depends on what this aircraft was going into the hangar for.I was on a delayed Monarch flight back from Lanzarotte once, which ended up being on an ancient A300 as a replacement aircraft so I guess there's some contingency capacity somewhere to call on for most airlines. I sincerely home the knackered 767 I was on coming back from New York a few weeks back was a spare too, or United are even more shoddy than I thought to be running planes in their old livery which are 20+ years old!
So, how many excess planes do airlines generally have? With vans and trucks you just hire them when one of yours breaks, but I guess this isn't as simple with aircraft. Any ideas?
I cannot remember the actual terms, but on of the maintenance checks pretty much involves taking the aircraft apart and rebuilding it, which takes a while. If it was going on for that, the incident would have had no impact, because any damage would have been identified and fixed as part of the check anyway.
scubadude said:
jamiebae said:
or United are even more shoddy than I thought to be running planes in their old livery which are 20+ years old!
Not doubting their shoddiness but is 20+yrs old an issue?I was on a BA flight into Seattle a few years ago and bad weather forced us to make a long approach from over Everett, the Pilot came on the intercom and told "the passengers on the right hand side will now have a good view of the Boeing factory where this plane was built 30years ago..." Not entirely sure it was confidence inspiring given the ice storm in progress.
Also the last trip back from Cape Town on one of BA's tired 747's made me question its age, the amount of silicon sealant holding the rearmost toilet and catering area together was mind boggling!
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