737 vs 757 vs 767
Discussion
I've flown the 737 and 757 sims at Heathrow, there's really no difference in fun or difficulty at the level you'll be doing it. Overpowered doesn't particularly reveal itself, nor is the 737 'simple' just cos it's the oldest and smallest. A good instructor will reduce you to a dribbling wreck in any of them, if that's what you want.
Unless you have experience and already know what you're doing with one of them, or have a particular fantasy to fulfill, I'd take any of them. You can always ask 'what's best' when booking, eg one of the 737s had upgraded graphics and was visually more impressive than the 757 next door.
Unless you have experience and already know what you're doing with one of them, or have a particular fantasy to fulfill, I'd take any of them. You can always ask 'what's best' when booking, eg one of the 737s had upgraded graphics and was visually more impressive than the 757 next door.
Steve7777 said:
I didn't know you could have a go in these. How much does it cost and for those who've done it would you recommend it?
From the website, £400-£450 for an hour 
http://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/baft/fly-a-sim...
Thought I'd post you guys a few videos since you seemed interested.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GecehrZlZPM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATE3KMlk6WQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSKdgL9R5QM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GecehrZlZPM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATE3KMlk6WQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSKdgL9R5QM
I've flown all three and would suggest the 757 or 767. The 737 is a bit more cramped in the front and the 75 and 767 will give you more space. There's very little difference in the sim between the 767 and 757 just some different buttons. The 767 is probably nicer to fly though as it's more stable. I wouldn't worry about performance differences as the sim operator will just alter the aircraft weights via the amount of fuel you have onboard to make the sim easier and more enjoyable to handle.
So if it was me, the 767.
So if it was me, the 767.
I'm back and wanted to write a report of the experience. I'll write what I remember and I hope it's of some use or interest. The experience certainly was great to me. This may not be perfectly written but is just an honest brain dump of the day. I'm not trying to be an internet hero by pretending to be an expert so if you have to correct me so be it.
What did you fly?
So, to answer my original thread question I ended up taking the 737 option. This was because of availability - it's much easier to get a slot. Also, though, this is such a common aircraft that I passenger frequently and I liked the idea of knowing how to fly it. You may laugh at that but as far as the authorities are concerned these are identical to the real thing and in many cases all the aircraft-specific training is done on these with no real aircraft used at all. Apparently the 737s age and status as a first generation Boeing make it a little trickier, something with which I have no problem.
What did you do?
You spend the whole time inside the simulator (1 hour flying and more time on introduction). Some briefings on the main controls, lights, instruments and so on. These are given by a real (usually retired) pilot trained on the aircraft in question, which makes the experience that much better. It's strange to walk in, hang up your jacket, and then you're apparently inside an airliner. Once the door is closed and the light off it's highly realistic, before you even start up.
What's the simulation like?
The trainer sets it up (with a computer in the flight engineer's seat) and usually you're on the runway or on approach. The simulator does simulate every function of the aircraft so if you wanted to pretend to come in, turn on the lights, release the parking brakes, start the engines, pressurize the cabin, take off disable some hydraulics mid-flight and see how long you can keep the plane flying then you could, and it would entertain it. Maybe this all seems obvious but I was impressed with the detail to which everything is simulated. I like the idea of spending ages fiddling with everything and seeing how it responds. And of simulating failures mid-flight (is it just me??).
Is it realistic?
The action and realism of the simulator is much better than I expected. The movement feels incredibly real, in fact exactly like real aircraft. That feeling you get when your stomach drops out and makes you nautious, whenever a steep bank or sudden climb happens? That was recreated exactly here. It felt a bit intimidating due to this realism. Applying takeoff power made it squat and changed the attitude of it. The overall feeling was that there was a lot of heavy aircraft behind you. Very impressive and perhaps the most surprising aspect. It can border on violent and could probably be quite dangerous actually - it has to, presumably, simulate fairly similar forces to a real aircraft and you could probably make people throw up. Certainly you had to be careful when the instructor moved to the rear seat to change the simulation setting. It greatly intensified the feeling of having to get it right since it felt so unpleasant when you didn't. It's also the way it's done that's so good. It doesn't just move - it really gives the absolute impression of genuine momentum and weight. Combined with sharp responses if required. Really well done.
What flying did you do?
We spent the hour largely doing approaches. The take offs are pretty standard if you know what you're doing - inch and a half of power, then press the button for full and steer down the centreline (using your feet to steer the nosewheel - weird). Pull back for takeoff and it's simple, unless you're taking off from Innsbruck, which I did try, and requires immediate banking right to avoid a cliff dead ahead. We did lark about flying 500 kts at 300 feet for a bit, though, too.
What did flying involve?
Flying could involve larking around and just pulling some Gs in different directions. I tried it - but it gets very uncomfortable for both of you due to the forces and movement, so it's not really encouraged. So we flew approaches. This included straight on, straight on with 1km visibility and 300ft cloud level (very alarming as the runway suddenly appears after ages spent staring at grey cloud), and a special curving approach into a New York airport that I couldn't remember the name of. Flying, navigating and approaching was handled by following the flight director. This corresponds to the autopilot and the flight management system entries. In short, you're keeping a little square within the centre crosshair on the virtual horizon screen. Sounds simple, and it is, but it's weird to do it while also staring out a screen and trying not to spill the passengers' champagne.
How hard is it?
Landing the aircraft is not too difficult, but what surprised me was the level of concentration required even after repeated attempt. You're thinking in 3D, moving a heavy old thing and with all the movements, so many displays to look at, things to think about, I do have new found appreciation for this job. Throw in low cloud and it's extremely disconcerting.
What safety features did you try?
Oh yes, we tried out TCAS. We set two aircraft a few miles apart on a dead ahead collision course. This shows diamonds, orange diamonds, and so on as you close in on each other and sounds warnings. Interestingly it then displays a trapezoid and you have to fly outside of that to avoid the other aircraft. Clever since it's done with aircraft-to-aircraft communication, not via ATC.
What else to say...
How were the graphics?
I wasn't too interested but they were pretty good. The roads have moving cars and they drove on the left in the UK and the right elsewhere!
Can you do a barrel roll?
Yes, we did. Very very very disorienting it was.
Did a lot of alarms go off?
Yes. We mucked about and flew low. We had master alarms, sink alarms, gear warnings, and more. I was a bit brave on climb and got stick shake, I was nearing a stall I suppose. It felt unpleasant. I messed up some takeoffs and activated the altimeter warning.
How does it sound?
More realistic than expected. There's even real, loud, bump-thump as you run over the cats eye lights on the runway - you feel the shake as well as hearing it. Engine sounds, even rain sounds, are all there.
What did I learn?
As I thought, just flying it around is easy. Anyone can do it. However, everything you're doing to manage the flight is very taxing on the brain. I'm a systems engineer so actually I thought that they would benefit from having the pilots do fewer mundane tasks and automating the boring ones to improve safety by reducing workload. I have a lot of respect though for everything involved.
What else?
It's pretty cramped and not exactly comfortable. Spending hours there would really get wearing. It's a real cockpit so I guess that's just what they're like.
Would I recommend it?
Definitely, if you're a geek.
Why am I writing this in the form of questions and answer?
I have no idea.
How did an Aston Vantage feel after this?
Pretty mundane and disappointing, although a great deal more nimble.
I hope this is of some interest to some of you - let me know.
What did you fly?
So, to answer my original thread question I ended up taking the 737 option. This was because of availability - it's much easier to get a slot. Also, though, this is such a common aircraft that I passenger frequently and I liked the idea of knowing how to fly it. You may laugh at that but as far as the authorities are concerned these are identical to the real thing and in many cases all the aircraft-specific training is done on these with no real aircraft used at all. Apparently the 737s age and status as a first generation Boeing make it a little trickier, something with which I have no problem.
What did you do?
You spend the whole time inside the simulator (1 hour flying and more time on introduction). Some briefings on the main controls, lights, instruments and so on. These are given by a real (usually retired) pilot trained on the aircraft in question, which makes the experience that much better. It's strange to walk in, hang up your jacket, and then you're apparently inside an airliner. Once the door is closed and the light off it's highly realistic, before you even start up.
What's the simulation like?
The trainer sets it up (with a computer in the flight engineer's seat) and usually you're on the runway or on approach. The simulator does simulate every function of the aircraft so if you wanted to pretend to come in, turn on the lights, release the parking brakes, start the engines, pressurize the cabin, take off disable some hydraulics mid-flight and see how long you can keep the plane flying then you could, and it would entertain it. Maybe this all seems obvious but I was impressed with the detail to which everything is simulated. I like the idea of spending ages fiddling with everything and seeing how it responds. And of simulating failures mid-flight (is it just me??).
Is it realistic?
The action and realism of the simulator is much better than I expected. The movement feels incredibly real, in fact exactly like real aircraft. That feeling you get when your stomach drops out and makes you nautious, whenever a steep bank or sudden climb happens? That was recreated exactly here. It felt a bit intimidating due to this realism. Applying takeoff power made it squat and changed the attitude of it. The overall feeling was that there was a lot of heavy aircraft behind you. Very impressive and perhaps the most surprising aspect. It can border on violent and could probably be quite dangerous actually - it has to, presumably, simulate fairly similar forces to a real aircraft and you could probably make people throw up. Certainly you had to be careful when the instructor moved to the rear seat to change the simulation setting. It greatly intensified the feeling of having to get it right since it felt so unpleasant when you didn't. It's also the way it's done that's so good. It doesn't just move - it really gives the absolute impression of genuine momentum and weight. Combined with sharp responses if required. Really well done.
What flying did you do?
We spent the hour largely doing approaches. The take offs are pretty standard if you know what you're doing - inch and a half of power, then press the button for full and steer down the centreline (using your feet to steer the nosewheel - weird). Pull back for takeoff and it's simple, unless you're taking off from Innsbruck, which I did try, and requires immediate banking right to avoid a cliff dead ahead. We did lark about flying 500 kts at 300 feet for a bit, though, too.
What did flying involve?
Flying could involve larking around and just pulling some Gs in different directions. I tried it - but it gets very uncomfortable for both of you due to the forces and movement, so it's not really encouraged. So we flew approaches. This included straight on, straight on with 1km visibility and 300ft cloud level (very alarming as the runway suddenly appears after ages spent staring at grey cloud), and a special curving approach into a New York airport that I couldn't remember the name of. Flying, navigating and approaching was handled by following the flight director. This corresponds to the autopilot and the flight management system entries. In short, you're keeping a little square within the centre crosshair on the virtual horizon screen. Sounds simple, and it is, but it's weird to do it while also staring out a screen and trying not to spill the passengers' champagne.
How hard is it?
Landing the aircraft is not too difficult, but what surprised me was the level of concentration required even after repeated attempt. You're thinking in 3D, moving a heavy old thing and with all the movements, so many displays to look at, things to think about, I do have new found appreciation for this job. Throw in low cloud and it's extremely disconcerting.
What safety features did you try?
Oh yes, we tried out TCAS. We set two aircraft a few miles apart on a dead ahead collision course. This shows diamonds, orange diamonds, and so on as you close in on each other and sounds warnings. Interestingly it then displays a trapezoid and you have to fly outside of that to avoid the other aircraft. Clever since it's done with aircraft-to-aircraft communication, not via ATC.
What else to say...
How were the graphics?
I wasn't too interested but they were pretty good. The roads have moving cars and they drove on the left in the UK and the right elsewhere!
Can you do a barrel roll?
Yes, we did. Very very very disorienting it was.
Did a lot of alarms go off?
Yes. We mucked about and flew low. We had master alarms, sink alarms, gear warnings, and more. I was a bit brave on climb and got stick shake, I was nearing a stall I suppose. It felt unpleasant. I messed up some takeoffs and activated the altimeter warning.
How does it sound?
More realistic than expected. There's even real, loud, bump-thump as you run over the cats eye lights on the runway - you feel the shake as well as hearing it. Engine sounds, even rain sounds, are all there.
What did I learn?
As I thought, just flying it around is easy. Anyone can do it. However, everything you're doing to manage the flight is very taxing on the brain. I'm a systems engineer so actually I thought that they would benefit from having the pilots do fewer mundane tasks and automating the boring ones to improve safety by reducing workload. I have a lot of respect though for everything involved.
What else?
It's pretty cramped and not exactly comfortable. Spending hours there would really get wearing. It's a real cockpit so I guess that's just what they're like.
Would I recommend it?
Definitely, if you're a geek.
Why am I writing this in the form of questions and answer?
I have no idea.
How did an Aston Vantage feel after this?
Pretty mundane and disappointing, although a great deal more nimble.
I hope this is of some interest to some of you - let me know.
Edited by Pentoman on Saturday 7th March 22:06
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