Replacing the 757
Discussion
Looking up the Problems that Ryanair have starting a Transatlantic service and My Thoughts were to run 2nd hand 757's. It seems that a lot of operators feel the same to the extent that United for example are looking to replace the 757 with another "Thin body" rather than a wide body due to the routes they run over the Atlantic. Looks like Boeing could have got it wrong by deleting the LR 757 and not replacing it.
Martin4356111 said:
Boeing replaced the 757 with the next generation of 737 model. The 800 and 900 versions offer similar passenger numbers and a greater range. That said, you cant replace a 757. By far my favourite passenger airliner!
I think the 737-9 has both lower passenger capacity and range than the 757-200 and certainly -300. It carries much less freight also.An operator would only ever use it on routes with very small capacity. If ryanair are really starting long haul, they'll be looking to make savings with a bulk buy of newer larger more efficient aircraft.
It's the "long thin" routes that the 757 excels on that the 737 cannot do. A number of US airlines that run these on a Frequency rather than load will need to replace them. They are looking at a 180 to 200 seat narrow body which the 737 just does not cover with the range required. Boeing have admitted that they are looking at a new design but Airbus could get there before them with the A321NeoLR.
Edited by telecat on Tuesday 17th March 12:21
el stovey said:
I think the 737-9 has both lower passenger capacity and range than the 757-200 and certainly -300. It carries much less freight also.
Boeing launched and markets the 737-900 as a replacement for the 757. The 757-300 has a definite advantage in terms of range, payload etc over the 737-900. However, only 55 were built showing that there was a very small appetite from a handful of carriers for this size of aircraft and no point in replacing it with a like for like aircraft.
No 737 is a real replacement for a 757 and I say that as an ex-737 jockey!
The only reason boeing marketed the 737-9 as a replacement for the 75 is simply because they realised they had nothing to fill a section of the market that people still want.
A 73 is always going to be smaller, less able to use hot and high and less well prepped airfeilds than a 757. The 737 is a great aircraft, but it's just not as versatile as a 757.
The only reason boeing marketed the 737-9 as a replacement for the 75 is simply because they realised they had nothing to fill a section of the market that people still want.
A 73 is always going to be smaller, less able to use hot and high and less well prepped airfeilds than a 757. The 737 is a great aircraft, but it's just not as versatile as a 757.
IforB said:
No 737 is a real replacement for a 757 and I say that as an ex-737 jockey!
The only reason boeing marketed the 737-9 as a replacement for the 75 is simply because they realised they had nothing to fill a section of the market that people still want.
A 73 is always going to be smaller, less able to use hot and high and less well prepped airfeilds than a 757. The 737 is a great aircraft, but it's just not as versatile as a 757.
I agree, Boeing appear to have let their guard down with regards to this.The only reason boeing marketed the 737-9 as a replacement for the 75 is simply because they realised they had nothing to fill a section of the market that people still want.
A 73 is always going to be smaller, less able to use hot and high and less well prepped airfeilds than a 757. The 737 is a great aircraft, but it's just not as versatile as a 757.
IforB said:
There is some noise from some Boeing guys I know that the 75 line may be restarted. I do hope so, it's a cracking machine.
It's not very efficient though. The main problem is that the 787 cost so much to develop and created so many problems, that the next new aircraft to be developed by boeing ,the Y1 (737/757) replacement has been delayed by decades. Airbus releasing the neo forced boeing into bodging more old types with winglets and new engines (737 max) instead of developing their Y1, new aircraft, which has now gone back from 2020 to 2030.
Edited by el stovey on Wednesday 18th March 06:19
Martin4356111 said:
Could the 757 be re-engined in a similar way to the Airbus NEO types?
Yes but it's not economically viable. The 757 has an expensive manufacture process. It has old heavy pneumatic and hydraulic systems and a less aerodynamic wing and airframe. It has no real on board monitoring systems so has a much more regular and expensive maintenance schedule. There would simply not be enough orders to justify re engining the 757 or Re opening the production line.
As I said above, boeing really need a new composite aircraft in this size but are overloaded with developing the 78 and 73 and 777.
Perhaps a short 787 might fit the requirement.
Edited by el stovey on Wednesday 18th March 09:28
el stovey said:
IforB said:
There is some noise from some Boeing guys I know that the 75 line may be restarted. I do hope so, it's a cracking machine.
It's not very efficient though. The main problem is that the 787 cost so much to develop and created so many problems, that the next new aircraft to be developed by boeing ,the Y1 (737/757) replacement has been delayed by decades. Airbus releasing the neo forced boeing into bodging more old types with winglets and new engines (737 max) instead of developing their Y1, new aircraft, which has now gone back from 2020 to 2030.
Edited by el stovey on Wednesday 18th March 06:19
Boeing are thinking about bodging together an upgraded version of the 75 and they have all of the development of systems from other aircraft already available to slot in. They won't be doing anything like making a composite version, but a new wing and upgraded systems is a relatively small project in comparison to a new composite version!
It's a relatively low cost approach (I use the term relatively here!) even with a new wing.
I think it'd sell like hotcakes.
Martin4356111 said:
The KC-46 is based on the 767-200ER, has the wings and gear from the 300F and the flight deck and flaps from the 400ER.
Could you do the same with the 757 using updated parts?
You could do all sorts but it wouldn't be worth it because it would still be a heavy old 1970s aircraft with heavy old complex architecture and not enough operators would buy it. Could you do the same with the 757 using updated parts?
If it was viable then Boeing would do it, otherwise they are giving up market position to airbus who are offering A321 neo LRs which will clean up in this sector.
Boeing need to plug the 757 sized gap between the 737-900 and the 787-8 well before the planned Y1 in 2030.
Edited by el stovey on Wednesday 18th March 17:39
el stovey said:
You could do all sorts but it wouldn't be worth it because it would still be a heavy old 1970s aircraft with heavy old complex architecture and not enough operators would buy it.
If it was viable then Boeing would do it, otherwise they are giving up market position to airbus who are offering A321 neo LRs which will clean up in this sector.
Boeing need to plug the 757 sized gap between the 737-900 and the 787-8 well before the planned Y1 in 2030.
It's not a big market sector, and Airbus are already in it. Even if they started today it would be ten years before they had a plane ready, by which time the A321 would have cleaned up. Chances are that the gap won't be quite as big as you think anyway.If it was viable then Boeing would do it, otherwise they are giving up market position to airbus who are offering A321 neo LRs which will clean up in this sector.
Boeing need to plug the 757 sized gap between the 737-900 and the 787-8 well before the planned Y1 in 2030.
Edited by el stovey on Wednesday 18th March 17:39
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