Do we have any train drivers in here?
Discussion
a few questions occurred on the way home from London on the train today:
1. Can you tell the difference when a train is loaded with passengers v empty?
2. Dues a commuter train have gears? If so how many and is the train automatic
3. Do you start a train with a key?
4. We had to stop on the middle of nowhere due to a fault with an emergency brake- what stops another train smashin Us Up the backside?
5. How many people does a full commuter train carry?
6. What happens if I pull the emergency lever?
apologies for typos- bloody iPad
1. Can you tell the difference when a train is loaded with passengers v empty?
2. Dues a commuter train have gears? If so how many and is the train automatic
3. Do you start a train with a key?
4. We had to stop on the middle of nowhere due to a fault with an emergency brake- what stops another train smashin Us Up the backside?
5. How many people does a full commuter train carry?
6. What happens if I pull the emergency lever?
apologies for typos- bloody iPad
PugwasHDJ80 said:
a few questions occurred on the way home from London on the train today:
1. Can you tell the difference when a train is loaded with passengers v empty?
Not sure
2. Dues a commuter train have gears? If so how many and is the train automatic
Trains are electrically / hydraulically driven they don't have gears you can change yourself
3. Do you start a train with a key?
Not sure
4. We had to stop on the middle of nowhere due to a fault with an emergency brake- what stops another train smashin Us Up the backside?
You are protected by the signalling system, the signal in rear of the train will be at red until it has exited the section
5. How many people does a full commuter train carry?
Depends how many carriages
6. What happens if I pull the emergency lever?
The emergency brakes are applied
apologies for typos- bloody iPad
1. Can you tell the difference when a train is loaded with passengers v empty?
Not sure
2. Dues a commuter train have gears? If so how many and is the train automatic
Trains are electrically / hydraulically driven they don't have gears you can change yourself
3. Do you start a train with a key?
Not sure
4. We had to stop on the middle of nowhere due to a fault with an emergency brake- what stops another train smashin Us Up the backside?
You are protected by the signalling system, the signal in rear of the train will be at red until it has exited the section
5. How many people does a full commuter train carry?
Depends how many carriages
6. What happens if I pull the emergency lever?
The emergency brakes are applied
apologies for typos- bloody iPad
PugwasHDJ80 said:
a few questions occurred on the way home from London on the train today:
1. Can you tell the difference when a train is loaded with passengers v empty?
2. Dues a commuter train have gears? If so how many and is the train automatic
3. Do you start a train with a key?
4. We had to stop on the middle of nowhere due to a fault with an emergency brake- what stops another train smashin Us Up the backside?
5. How many people does a full commuter train carry?
6. What happens if I pull the emergency lever?
apologies for typos- bloody iPad
I drive electric commuter trains (2 types, one with a top speed of 90mph, the other 110mph)1. Can you tell the difference when a train is loaded with passengers v empty?
2. Dues a commuter train have gears? If so how many and is the train automatic
3. Do you start a train with a key?
4. We had to stop on the middle of nowhere due to a fault with an emergency brake- what stops another train smashin Us Up the backside?
5. How many people does a full commuter train carry?
6. What happens if I pull the emergency lever?
apologies for typos- bloody iPad
1) Yes, but not for acceleration, you can tell by how the train behaves on it's air suspension (can wallow) and sometimes the braking may not be as good if the variable load valves aren't compensating properly.
2) No, not my electric trains, driven by motors, but through 'fixed gears', not gears as in a car. But I know class 172 trains have bus gearboxes and change gears, other types of diesel units have hydrostatic drive, then 'lock up' at circa 45mph, other diesel trains are purely generators supplying electric to motors.
3) Yes, a 'Master Key'
4) The signalling system (traffic lights or semaphore signals-old fashioned 'traffic lights'), also signals can have TPWS (Train Protection Warning System) which applies brakes if certain conditions are not met, also system called AWS which can stop trains and also a system called ATP on Great Western route.
5) As many as you can fit on, the legal limit is something like 10 per square metre in the train (physically impossible to reach), trains list how many seats on ends of carriages, plus other info, like weight, max speed.
6) I get an alarm in the cab, if I do not respond with 'x' seconds, the brakes will apply in emergency, or I can override 'x' amount of times, to get the train to a suitable location to investigate the emergency, or other alarms 'switches' are 2 stage and WILL apply the brakes and I cannot do anything about it, just investigate and remedy.
s2rv said:
I drive electric commuter trains (2 types, one with a top speed of 90mph, the other 110mph)
1) Yes, but not for acceleration, you can tell by how the train behaves on it's air suspension (can wallow) and sometimes the braking may not be as good if the variable load valves aren't compensating properly.
2) No, not my electric trains, driven by motors, but through 'fixed gears', not gears as in a car. But I know class 172 trains have bus gearboxes and change gears, other types of diesel units have hydrostatic drive, then 'lock up' at circa 45mph, other diesel trains are purely generators supplying electric to motors.
3) Yes, a 'Master Key'
4) The signalling system (traffic lights or semaphore signals-old fashioned 'traffic lights'), also signals can have TPWS (Train Protection Warning System) which applies brakes if certain conditions are not met, also system called AWS which can stop trains and also a system called ATP on Great Western route.
5) As many as you can fit on, the legal limit is something like 10 per square metre in the train (physically impossible to reach), trains list how many seats on ends of carriages, plus other info, like weight, max speed.
6) I get an alarm in the cab, if I do not respond with 'x' seconds, the brakes will apply in emergency, or I can override 'x' amount of times, to get the train to a suitable location to investigate the emergency, or other alarms 'switches' are 2 stage and WILL apply the brakes and I cannot do anything about it, just investigate and remedy.
Top lurking and a great contribution as your first post!1) Yes, but not for acceleration, you can tell by how the train behaves on it's air suspension (can wallow) and sometimes the braking may not be as good if the variable load valves aren't compensating properly.
2) No, not my electric trains, driven by motors, but through 'fixed gears', not gears as in a car. But I know class 172 trains have bus gearboxes and change gears, other types of diesel units have hydrostatic drive, then 'lock up' at circa 45mph, other diesel trains are purely generators supplying electric to motors.
3) Yes, a 'Master Key'
4) The signalling system (traffic lights or semaphore signals-old fashioned 'traffic lights'), also signals can have TPWS (Train Protection Warning System) which applies brakes if certain conditions are not met, also system called AWS which can stop trains and also a system called ATP on Great Western route.
5) As many as you can fit on, the legal limit is something like 10 per square metre in the train (physically impossible to reach), trains list how many seats on ends of carriages, plus other info, like weight, max speed.
6) I get an alarm in the cab, if I do not respond with 'x' seconds, the brakes will apply in emergency, or I can override 'x' amount of times, to get the train to a suitable location to investigate the emergency, or other alarms 'switches' are 2 stage and WILL apply the brakes and I cannot do anything about it, just investigate and remedy.
1. Can you tell the difference when a train is loaded with passengers v empty?
A fully super crush laden carriage has around an additional 7 tonnes of weight, I would have thought that this would be noticed on acceleration but I'm not a driver so I'll bow to s2rv's greater knowledge on that.
2. Dues a commuter train have gears? If so how many and is the train automatic
Only diesel-hydraulic or diesel-mechnical. Since the mid eighties until relatively recently all diesel trains have used variations of the Voith T211 transmission.
http://www.voith.com/en/products-services/power-tr...
This is 2 stage transmission, although it doesn't have gears in the conventional sense, rather two stages; the first a torque converter and the second a fluid coupling. On more powerful engines (>750 hp) its larger cousin the T312 is used. This has 3 stages, the first being a torque converter, then two fluid couplings. You can tell when it changes stage as the engine note changes. They are fully automatic.
However, these hydro-mechanical transmissions are heavy, large and not particularly efficient compared to more traditional mechanical tranmissions. In recent years the limitations of bus and truck derived automatic mechanical tranmissions (not being able to handle the torque) has been solved and the last DMU train built for the UK, the Class 172, used a ZF EcoLife 'box.
https://www.zf.com/eu/content/media/italy/download...
This is much more akin to a car transmission (albeit bigger). These are 6 speed. They are also fully automatic.
3. Do you start a train with a key?
You "enable the desk" with a key. I suppose on an electric unit you "start" the train when you raise the pantograph? On a DMU once you've enabled the desk by turning the key you press an engine start button to start the engines.
4. We had to stop on the middle of nowhere due to a fault with an emergency brake- what stops another train smashin Us Up the backside?
See s2rv's response.
5. How many people does a full commuter train carry?
It depends on the carriage size and seating layout. But typically around 65-70 seated and another 20-30 standing per carriage. There isn't a legal limit as such (that I'm aware of) but there is a design condition that is used to demonstrate the capability of the axles to take a maximum load. This condition is (was a few years ago anyway) 500kg/m2 @70kg per passenger, so 7.14 passenger per m2. However, as s2rv has said, it's not possible to reach in practice.
6. What happens if I pull the emergency lever?
See s2rv's response.
A fully super crush laden carriage has around an additional 7 tonnes of weight, I would have thought that this would be noticed on acceleration but I'm not a driver so I'll bow to s2rv's greater knowledge on that.
2. Dues a commuter train have gears? If so how many and is the train automatic
Only diesel-hydraulic or diesel-mechnical. Since the mid eighties until relatively recently all diesel trains have used variations of the Voith T211 transmission.
http://www.voith.com/en/products-services/power-tr...
This is 2 stage transmission, although it doesn't have gears in the conventional sense, rather two stages; the first a torque converter and the second a fluid coupling. On more powerful engines (>750 hp) its larger cousin the T312 is used. This has 3 stages, the first being a torque converter, then two fluid couplings. You can tell when it changes stage as the engine note changes. They are fully automatic.
However, these hydro-mechanical transmissions are heavy, large and not particularly efficient compared to more traditional mechanical tranmissions. In recent years the limitations of bus and truck derived automatic mechanical tranmissions (not being able to handle the torque) has been solved and the last DMU train built for the UK, the Class 172, used a ZF EcoLife 'box.
https://www.zf.com/eu/content/media/italy/download...
This is much more akin to a car transmission (albeit bigger). These are 6 speed. They are also fully automatic.
3. Do you start a train with a key?
You "enable the desk" with a key. I suppose on an electric unit you "start" the train when you raise the pantograph? On a DMU once you've enabled the desk by turning the key you press an engine start button to start the engines.
4. We had to stop on the middle of nowhere due to a fault with an emergency brake- what stops another train smashin Us Up the backside?
See s2rv's response.
5. How many people does a full commuter train carry?
It depends on the carriage size and seating layout. But typically around 65-70 seated and another 20-30 standing per carriage. There isn't a legal limit as such (that I'm aware of) but there is a design condition that is used to demonstrate the capability of the axles to take a maximum load. This condition is (was a few years ago anyway) 500kg/m2 @70kg per passenger, so 7.14 passenger per m2. However, as s2rv has said, it's not possible to reach in practice.
6. What happens if I pull the emergency lever?
See s2rv's response.
[quote=nc107]1. Can you tell the difference when a train is loaded with passengers v empty?
A fully super crush laden carriage has around an additional 7 tonnes of weight, I would have thought that this would be noticed on acceleration but I'm not a driver so I'll bow to s2rv's greater knowledge on that.
I guess if you drove the same train (unit/s) on the same run with an empty train and then a crush loaded one (immediately after each other), I guess you could/would tell the difference. But, in practice, it doesn't happen, so it is down to each person's perceptions. I know from my own point of view, differences in efficiency of the unit concerned (ie recently overhauled unit) or a unit with run in wheels and motors can make a difference, along with wheel diameter and the inaccuracies of the speedometer will be telling as you may reach a certain speed by a slightly different point. Also the different sub classes of unit I drive weigh different amounts and can be mixed (inter operated) whilst in service. I'm not sure of this (as I have no need to know it), but a class 350/1 weighs around 7 tonnes more than a 350/2 due to the fact that /1 trains have DC equipment on them whilst /2 are only 25kv AC, then their motors make different noises, so I would guess the motors are different too. To put it in perspective, if I accelerate from 0-110mph it takes roughly 3m30s to achieve, but as the distance this takes can vary by maybe 1/3rd of a mile or so, but is that down to loadings or differences between units? As 110mph on one unit may only equate to 106mph on another due to wheel dimension differences, actual power outputs, plus a 4 car train has more frontal surface area to push through the air in comparison to an 8 car formation and a 12 car formation when looked at against the formation of the train and the power available being circa 2000hp, 4000hp or 6000hp, also are the overhead wires supplying under or over 25kv power? As I suppose that would make a difference. I guess what I'm trying to say is, never the same train twice on the same journey (even though I'm still driving the 08.30, so very hard for me to say definitively).
Hope the above doesn't come across condescending, it's not supposed to be, just trying to give a bit more input and help explain my reasoning.
A fully super crush laden carriage has around an additional 7 tonnes of weight, I would have thought that this would be noticed on acceleration but I'm not a driver so I'll bow to s2rv's greater knowledge on that.
I guess if you drove the same train (unit/s) on the same run with an empty train and then a crush loaded one (immediately after each other), I guess you could/would tell the difference. But, in practice, it doesn't happen, so it is down to each person's perceptions. I know from my own point of view, differences in efficiency of the unit concerned (ie recently overhauled unit) or a unit with run in wheels and motors can make a difference, along with wheel diameter and the inaccuracies of the speedometer will be telling as you may reach a certain speed by a slightly different point. Also the different sub classes of unit I drive weigh different amounts and can be mixed (inter operated) whilst in service. I'm not sure of this (as I have no need to know it), but a class 350/1 weighs around 7 tonnes more than a 350/2 due to the fact that /1 trains have DC equipment on them whilst /2 are only 25kv AC, then their motors make different noises, so I would guess the motors are different too. To put it in perspective, if I accelerate from 0-110mph it takes roughly 3m30s to achieve, but as the distance this takes can vary by maybe 1/3rd of a mile or so, but is that down to loadings or differences between units? As 110mph on one unit may only equate to 106mph on another due to wheel dimension differences, actual power outputs, plus a 4 car train has more frontal surface area to push through the air in comparison to an 8 car formation and a 12 car formation when looked at against the formation of the train and the power available being circa 2000hp, 4000hp or 6000hp, also are the overhead wires supplying under or over 25kv power? As I suppose that would make a difference. I guess what I'm trying to say is, never the same train twice on the same journey (even though I'm still driving the 08.30, so very hard for me to say definitively).
Hope the above doesn't come across condescending, it's not supposed to be, just trying to give a bit more input and help explain my reasoning.
texaxile said:
Well,
I can drive a Class 08 shunting loco if that helps!.
Do you need new knees? As I had the pleasure of travelling around a yard once on one, It wasn't the most comfortable experience on badly jointed track! But, I would like to drive one one day (Don't suppose I ever will though) I can drive a Class 08 shunting loco if that helps!.
3. Do you start a train with a key?
You "enable the desk" with a key. I suppose on an electric unit you "start" the train when you raise the pantograph? On a DMU once you've enabled the desk by turning the key you press an engine start button to start the engines.
I guess it depends on the definition of 'starting', the train is 'live' when i turn the batteries on, as the Train Management System starts up and starts running it's system and train tests-but faults will be present until (Data Recorders start also and all 110v dc Safety systems become active too) I raise the pantograph I have not got 'line' power and brakes will be 'locked on' as possibly not enough air pressure to release them, plus no 'traction' power available, but you can roll an electric train without the 'pan' up, so it's a 2 stage 'on' as far as I'm concerned.
Anyway, I better go back to 'lurking', been far too active today.....
You "enable the desk" with a key. I suppose on an electric unit you "start" the train when you raise the pantograph? On a DMU once you've enabled the desk by turning the key you press an engine start button to start the engines.
I guess it depends on the definition of 'starting', the train is 'live' when i turn the batteries on, as the Train Management System starts up and starts running it's system and train tests-but faults will be present until (Data Recorders start also and all 110v dc Safety systems become active too) I raise the pantograph I have not got 'line' power and brakes will be 'locked on' as possibly not enough air pressure to release them, plus no 'traction' power available, but you can roll an electric train without the 'pan' up, so it's a 2 stage 'on' as far as I'm concerned.
Anyway, I better go back to 'lurking', been far too active today.....
I've driven trains for 37 years now including the old style DMU's, they had a tiny key to energize the controls which just happened to be exactly the same as my Rover P5B. The barrel on the ignition was well worn, as was that of most DMU's ,keys were interchangeable. DMU's were the last train I really drove which required abit of mechanical sympathy and 3 arms!Vac brake to off, quickly into first as brakes released, a bit of throttle as the transmission takes up then open up, 15mph shut off, watch revs drop, into 2nd open bit of throttle then open up fully. Into 4th at about 45mph. End of the journey put in reverse (if changing direction) AWS lever off, key out,remove brake lever and reverser, wind handbrake wheel on and leave brake lever on handbrake wheel(next driver knows that's the one that's on)
Edited by W124Bob on Sunday 12th July 20:07
Its funny W124Bob but I used to hate the old DMUs as a kid. I remember going from Barrow in Furness to Carlisle on one and it seemed to take forever. Chugging away from every one of the numerous stops.
When the 150s came out I thought they were brilliant and to be fair they are compared to the old stuff.
It doesn't carry on that way though. The voyagers are noisy and harsh compared to an HST for example.
I have mellowed with age and living close to the Ecclesbourne valley railway, I have been on an old DMU a few times now and somehow remember them fondly.
When the 150s came out I thought they were brilliant and to be fair they are compared to the old stuff.
It doesn't carry on that way though. The voyagers are noisy and harsh compared to an HST for example.
I have mellowed with age and living close to the Ecclesbourne valley railway, I have been on an old DMU a few times now and somehow remember them fondly.
Do we have any train drivers in here? Yes
1. Can you tell the difference when a train is loaded with passengers v empty? Yes the acceleration is much slower
2. Dues a commuter train have gears? If so how many and is the train automatic Automatic, no gears just different power notches
3. Do you start a train with a key? - you put the EP key in
4. We had to stop on the middle of nowhere due to a fault with an emergency brake- what stops another train smashin Us Up the backside? - Signal behind will be at danger/showing a red
5. How many people does a full commuter train carry? abot 100 per coach, so up to 1,200.
6. What happens if I pull the emergency lever? - depends on the stock, but the train will stop.
Hope this helps
1. Can you tell the difference when a train is loaded with passengers v empty? Yes the acceleration is much slower
2. Dues a commuter train have gears? If so how many and is the train automatic Automatic, no gears just different power notches
3. Do you start a train with a key? - you put the EP key in
4. We had to stop on the middle of nowhere due to a fault with an emergency brake- what stops another train smashin Us Up the backside? - Signal behind will be at danger/showing a red
5. How many people does a full commuter train carry? abot 100 per coach, so up to 1,200.
6. What happens if I pull the emergency lever? - depends on the stock, but the train will stop.
Hope this helps
Edited by audikentman on Wednesday 15th July 13:38
s2rv said:
Do you need new knees? As I had the pleasure of travelling around a yard once on one, It wasn't the most comfortable experience on badly jointed track! But, I would like to drive one one day (Don't suppose I ever will though)
Been in the yard today, driving the 08. I have no knees. She did struggle a bit today, but slowly managed to pull 1540T! Even the shunter was surprised we moved.I drive class 66 trains pulling mostly container trains or car trains from where I work.
I wouldn't have thought people actually weigh enough to make a massive difference in acceleration (someone mentioned 7 tons).
RB5Bird said:
Been in the yard today, driving the 08. I have no knees. She did struggle a bit today, but slowly managed to pull 1540T! Even the shunter was surprised we moved.
I drive class 66 trains pulling mostly container trains or car trains from where I work.
I wouldn't have thought people actually weigh enough to make a massive difference in acceleration (someone mentioned 7 tons).
1500 tonnes, that's impressive for such a little loco, what's more impressive to me is that the shunters must 60+ years old and still going, as for the knees, the longer in the job, the more I'm finding my knees hurt, the one class of train is ok to drive (UK designed one from the 90's, the German designed one from the 00's isn't, so uncomfortable if on them for any period of time).I drive class 66 trains pulling mostly container trains or car trains from where I work.
I wouldn't have thought people actually weigh enough to make a massive difference in acceleration (someone mentioned 7 tons).
I have to say on the units I drive, the extra passenger weight doesn't seem to make an appreciable difference, more inaccuracies in speedo, wheel size (calibration) and units being a bit 'tired' between overhauls. As even crush loaded passengers weighing 7 tonnes per vehicle only make up for around a sixth of the total weight of the formation. I would guess driving diesel units it may be more noticeable as electric units have better power to weight and acceleration capabilities than diesels.
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