Indian Air Force beats RAF 12-0
Discussion
A close friend of mine is a Typhoon pilot and is not one for sensationalism nor exaggeration.
He's had some good opportunities to train with foreign aircraft (not this particular exercise I don't think) and whilst he's cautious, I don't think he'd be reaching for the ejection handle upon seeing an Su30.
He's had some good opportunities to train with foreign aircraft (not this particular exercise I don't think) and whilst he's cautious, I don't think he'd be reaching for the ejection handle upon seeing an Su30.
pablo said:
IAF arrives for training exercises, impose strict rules of engagement, essentially use typhoons as moving targets whilst pilots learn the terrain, claim 12-0 "victory" and go home...
Well we wouldn't want to 'offend' them would we... what with the nasty Empire and the slave trade and all that.Interested amateur not an expert, undoubtedly we'll see some analysis by real experts in coming days.
This was a training exercise for the IAF Pilots not a competition and when you're training somebody you steadily raise the threshold for them, you don't beat them up to rub in your superiority. That would be completely counter productive.
I would put good money on one of the objectives of the training being to teach the IAF pilots not to be over reliant on Thrust Vectoring. This is a lesson the Typhoon Pilots have even 'taught' USAF F22 pilots.
The Flanker and Raptor both use thrust vectoring to point the nose and missiles at the opposing plane when dog fighting. However thrust vectoring costs the plane a lot of speed leaving it vulnerable to counter attack. The Typhoon has the capability to aim its missile purely based on helmet mounted targeting which largely negates the advantage of thrust vectoring. This is something Raptor pilots have learnt in fighter competitions. The RAF instructors will probably have learnt a lot by seeing the Flanker in action, including how to exploit that counter attack opportunity.
This was a training exercise for the IAF Pilots not a competition and when you're training somebody you steadily raise the threshold for them, you don't beat them up to rub in your superiority. That would be completely counter productive.
I would put good money on one of the objectives of the training being to teach the IAF pilots not to be over reliant on Thrust Vectoring. This is a lesson the Typhoon Pilots have even 'taught' USAF F22 pilots.
The Flanker and Raptor both use thrust vectoring to point the nose and missiles at the opposing plane when dog fighting. However thrust vectoring costs the plane a lot of speed leaving it vulnerable to counter attack. The Typhoon has the capability to aim its missile purely based on helmet mounted targeting which largely negates the advantage of thrust vectoring. This is something Raptor pilots have learnt in fighter competitions. The RAF instructors will probably have learnt a lot by seeing the Flanker in action, including how to exploit that counter attack opportunity.
Edited by Martin4x4 on Saturday 8th August 00:04
Great bunch of lads though, the IAF mates - I flew a few of them in the Yak a few years ago - they all had Tales-From-The-Riverbank callsigns, I'm sure there was a Ratty and Badger, not sure about Mole. There was an Air Commodore who went by the name of "Moose", but I never did try the "Talk to me Moose" line when he was in the back seat.
I'm sure I remember something about the IAF going to the states for training and there comms system was so different that they couldn't communicate and so would 'fire' on a target as soon as they saw it meaning they killed friendlies on a regular basis
Here's the details from someone involved in the exercise (iirc it was red flag)
Here's the details from someone involved in the exercise (iirc it was red flag)
Edited by Silent1 on Saturday 8th August 23:32
As always with these events and all the other friendly training exercises it all comes down to rules of engagement or in some cases the host nation being told to not engage.
There was one a few years back with Typhoons and Rafales it wasn't until some time later that one of the crew posted on pprune about the G-limits, fuel loads, speed and altitude limits imposed as the host nation must always lose for the cause of 'improving relations'.
There was one a few years back with Typhoons and Rafales it wasn't until some time later that one of the crew posted on pprune about the G-limits, fuel loads, speed and altitude limits imposed as the host nation must always lose for the cause of 'improving relations'.
Edited by Godalmighty83 on Sunday 9th August 11:57
Martin4x4 said:
Interested amateur not an expert, undoubtedly we'll see some analysis by real experts in coming days.
This was a training exercise for the IAF Pilots not a competition and when you're training somebody you steadily raise the threshold for them, you don't beat them up to rub in your superiority. That would be completely counter productive.
Interested amateur not an expert here too! This was a training exercise for the IAF Pilots not a competition and when you're training somebody you steadily raise the threshold for them, you don't beat them up to rub in your superiority. That would be completely counter productive.
Edited by Martin4x4 on Saturday 8th August 00:04
I thought the exercise was actually for the RAF's benefit, so they could analyse the SU's abilities before any, hopefully unlikely, altercation over Ukraine?
The latest Flanker is certainly not to be underestimated from what I've read, but I do know for a fact that the RAF's pilots are superior to the IAF's.
Highly likely that the Typhoon wasn't using all its kit as someone else has already pointed out, but I don't believe for a second that the engagement ended 12-0.
Or (3)
Realise that it's a piece of propaganda published by the official Indian News Agency in order to big themselves up.
They did it a few years back where they claimed they'd kicked USAF F15 arse - a claim later demonstrated to be utter horlicks.
This claim is also utter horlicks.
It's a propaganda story for the masses.
Sadly a bunch of PHers have bought in to the B/S.
Realise that it's a piece of propaganda published by the official Indian News Agency in order to big themselves up.
They did it a few years back where they claimed they'd kicked USAF F15 arse - a claim later demonstrated to be utter horlicks.
This claim is also utter horlicks.
It's a propaganda story for the masses.
Sadly a bunch of PHers have bought in to the B/S.
Edited by Ginetta G15 Girl on Sunday 9th August 23:13
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
Or (3)
Realise that it's a piece of propaganda published by the official Indian News Agency in order to big themselves up.
They did it a few years back where they claimed they'd kicked USAF F15 arse - a claim later demonstrated to be utter horlicks.
This claim is also utter horlicks.
It's a propaganda story for the masses.
Sadly a bunch of PHers have bought in to the B/S.
I remember reading something about that, but was that not as much the USAF propaganda to get the funding for more Raptor thingies?Realise that it's a piece of propaganda published by the official Indian News Agency in order to big themselves up.
They did it a few years back where they claimed they'd kicked USAF F15 arse - a claim later demonstrated to be utter horlicks.
This claim is also utter horlicks.
It's a propaganda story for the masses.
Sadly a bunch of PHers have bought in to the B/S.
Edited by Ginetta G15 Girl on Sunday 9th August 23:13
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
Or (3)
Realise that it's a piece of propaganda published by the official Indian News Agency in order to big themselves up.
They did it a few years back where they claimed they'd kicked USAF F15 arse - a claim later demonstrated to be utter horlicks.
This claim is also utter horlicks.
It's a propaganda story for the masses.
Sadly a bunch of PHers have bought in to the B/S.
Were you there?Realise that it's a piece of propaganda published by the official Indian News Agency in order to big themselves up.
They did it a few years back where they claimed they'd kicked USAF F15 arse - a claim later demonstrated to be utter horlicks.
This claim is also utter horlicks.
It's a propaganda story for the masses.
Sadly a bunch of PHers have bought in to the B/S.
Edited by Ginetta G15 Girl on Sunday 9th August 23:13
Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff