Discussion
Myself and my other half have recently been discussing selling everything up, buying a 40ft Cruiser and sailing round Europe and over to the Caribbean eventually. Thing is neither of us can sail, yet! We've been inspired by a series of videos on YouTube called "Sailing La Vagabond" which is an Ozzy couple who did the same.
We're in the Manchester area and my question is, can anyone recommend a good place to learn? There are a few around the area but if anyone has any first hand experience or knows someone who does teach then your help would be much appreciated.
Are we mad to do it?
We're in the Manchester area and my question is, can anyone recommend a good place to learn? There are a few around the area but if anyone has any first hand experience or knows someone who does teach then your help would be much appreciated.
Are we mad to do it?
GTO-3R said:
Are we mad to do it?
Yes, yes you are mad, but that is also what makes it a great idea.We have a similar plan albeit with kids as well and have been inspired by several things including:
a) The channel 4 show a few years ago - "my family gap year" where some nutters did something similar.
b) A bunch of blogs from people doing the same - e.g. https://ohdarlinglove.wordpress.com/2012/10/31/sai...
In terms of sailing experience - we did a competent crew course in Ipswich which was a 4 day on board course covering boat handling etc. No real prep required beforehand.
We have done 3 sailing holidays - http://www.sailingholidays.com/ - definitely do one of these as it will help you meet other people who have done what you are planning to do (not necessarily the folks on the flotilla hol itself but you will bump into many people bobbing round the Med doing exactly your plan in each place you visit - pump them for info)
Our plan is to buy a boat in a couple of years and take 18 months off heading first to the Med towards Greece etc.
Then to end up in Gran Canaria to join up with the flotilla that bobs across to the Caribbean at the end of November
http://thecanarynews.com/29th-arc-regatta/
Then spend a few months floating round there.
In terms of Schools to learn - The comp crew was OK as it got both myself and the Mrs out on a boat learning how to do the basics. We did this primarily to go on the sailing holiday thinking that we would need the basics to be able to cope.
In hindsight, with our 4 day comp crew course, we were practically the most experienced people on the sailing hol we went on which made it easy and fun but we perhaps should have just done the Day Skipper straight off.
Ultimately, you should be looking to get a few of the RYA qualifications - Day Skipper, Coastal Skipper etc which would allow you to rent a boat in the UK which is probably a good place to sample the reality of it.
School wise, I wouldn't worry to much about school location - you'll get on the boat and disappear for 4 days anyway - treat it as a mini break - In the UK, we did Ipswich but looked at a few in the Solent and others. A friend of mine did the Day Skipper in Gibraltar (which is tidal like the UK) which sounds like a good idea to me.
You can do courses in Greece etc but these result in non-tidal qualifications so you still can't rent in the UK.
Do it - and write it up on the interweb to inspire the other nutters.
Bob
A friend of mine has just done this - she and her partner sailed down to Portugal and then across to the Caribbean. They had a great time, but they're sailing mad and have been sailing for some time, so I'd recommend that you learn first, improve your sailing and work up to longer trips before carrying out your intended plan! The alternative is to do what my Great Uncle did, who got fed up in the recession, bought an old boat and just headed straight down to Aus learning as he went 
He was shipwrecked, but it turned him into a bit of a celebrity (it's still not a good idea though!).
He was shipwrecked, but it turned him into a bit of a celebrity (it's still not a good idea though!).I've been watching that Vagabond too - its great!
If you have a lake nearby with a sailing club it's really worth learning (and you'll learn a lot faster) crewing and helming a dingy there...
Working on a smaller boat teaches you lots about sail-handling, balance and little tips that are worth knowing, and scale-up to a larger boats and may prove handy one day (sailing without a rudder etc).
Mistakes are a lot cheaper. It's much easier to practise docking/crashing under sail, (which if you lose power in a marina can be a handy skill to have).
It will teach you to sail efficiently, (I sail occasionally with an older guy who took it up 10 years ago and went straight to a 45ft, and he had no idea on setting the sails or what the tell-tales indicated etc).
Nothing stopping you guys doing your Yatchmaster/Costal skipper at the same time and doing both, will help out both areas, if you get what I mean.
VHF course is easy you can do that in an afternoon.
If you are not strong with engines and electronics then local course would prove useful - you'll be cleaning strainers/troubleshooting engine starting or working out why the fridge isn't working at some point : )
Anyway in short, you can jump straight in (many do), but would recommend a summer learning basics on a dingy.
-(Edited to add it's also really good fun too!).
If you have a lake nearby with a sailing club it's really worth learning (and you'll learn a lot faster) crewing and helming a dingy there...
Working on a smaller boat teaches you lots about sail-handling, balance and little tips that are worth knowing, and scale-up to a larger boats and may prove handy one day (sailing without a rudder etc).
Mistakes are a lot cheaper. It's much easier to practise docking/crashing under sail, (which if you lose power in a marina can be a handy skill to have).
It will teach you to sail efficiently, (I sail occasionally with an older guy who took it up 10 years ago and went straight to a 45ft, and he had no idea on setting the sails or what the tell-tales indicated etc).
Nothing stopping you guys doing your Yatchmaster/Costal skipper at the same time and doing both, will help out both areas, if you get what I mean.
VHF course is easy you can do that in an afternoon.
If you are not strong with engines and electronics then local course would prove useful - you'll be cleaning strainers/troubleshooting engine starting or working out why the fridge isn't working at some point : )
Anyway in short, you can jump straight in (many do), but would recommend a summer learning basics on a dingy.
-(Edited to add it's also really good fun too!).
Edited by Brother D on Wednesday 13th January 18:50
Totally agree with the advice to learn in a dinghy first. If you learn in yachts it takes so much longer to get a feel for how to sail. The difference is massive, a bit like doing a track day in an M5 vs driving a go kart - the kart will feel miles more intuitive and will get you learning 10 times faster.
Even in cruising, knowing how to sail better (i.e. better sail trim etc) can be incredibly useful as you can shave days off your passage times, on longer journeys.
Even in cruising, knowing how to sail better (i.e. better sail trim etc) can be incredibly useful as you can shave days off your passage times, on longer journeys.
100% learn in a dinghy first, no question.
Go and do a competent crew to get some miles and experience, and then you may be able to get some crewing positions on someone's yacht where you'll be a useful addition to the boat.
Check, on balance, you actually enjoy sailing. I know of no other "thing" that has such highs and lows. Creaming along downwind, kite up and the speedo reading big numbers, utterly amazing. Smashing along upwind, when you are dog tired, at night, wondering if you are about to get mown down by a ship or realising you've made zero progress in the last 4 hours because you screwed up your tidal calculations, not so good. Sat at anchor with a beer in your hand in a secluded anchorage with the missus, a bottle of wine and the stars for company, amazing. Removing someone else's excrement from a blocked toilet system with no chance of a shower for the next 36 hours, not so glamorous. Go and do some cross channel trips etc just to check it is for you!
And if you do decide to go for it, immerse yourself in all things maintenance...go and find someone who is doing a winter refit and offer to be his/her b
h...understand how to strip a winch, bleed an engine, fix a toilet, sort electrical gremlins, work with epoxy resin etc etc as being self sufficient in these areas for the cruising sailor can save time, money and most imprtantly your bacon.
And in these winter evenings, get enrolled on a day skipper theory course or similar, a really good foundation (even if in the real world it doesn't quite work like that!)
Enjoy and good luck!
Go and do a competent crew to get some miles and experience, and then you may be able to get some crewing positions on someone's yacht where you'll be a useful addition to the boat.
Check, on balance, you actually enjoy sailing. I know of no other "thing" that has such highs and lows. Creaming along downwind, kite up and the speedo reading big numbers, utterly amazing. Smashing along upwind, when you are dog tired, at night, wondering if you are about to get mown down by a ship or realising you've made zero progress in the last 4 hours because you screwed up your tidal calculations, not so good. Sat at anchor with a beer in your hand in a secluded anchorage with the missus, a bottle of wine and the stars for company, amazing. Removing someone else's excrement from a blocked toilet system with no chance of a shower for the next 36 hours, not so glamorous. Go and do some cross channel trips etc just to check it is for you!
And if you do decide to go for it, immerse yourself in all things maintenance...go and find someone who is doing a winter refit and offer to be his/her b
h...understand how to strip a winch, bleed an engine, fix a toilet, sort electrical gremlins, work with epoxy resin etc etc as being self sufficient in these areas for the cruising sailor can save time, money and most imprtantly your bacon.And in these winter evenings, get enrolled on a day skipper theory course or similar, a really good foundation (even if in the real world it doesn't quite work like that!)
Enjoy and good luck!
GTO-3R said:
Are we mad to do it?
Yes, but just about mad enough that it could work!!Just make sure you can both handle living in a glorified caravan on an indefinite basis, and make sure that you have the knowledge and experience before you go for anything that you're not 100% sure on
Despite the blazer wearing toff stereotype, the sailors I know and socialise with are thoroughly good people who only want everyone to get the same thrill they do from being on the water
Get out there, be on the water and get an idea of what you enjoy, the previous poster who mentioned highs and lows got it right, sailing has given me the highest highs and most devastating lows of my life, but I enjoyed every moment of it
Wow, thanks all for your kind help and advice guys!
I'd read in various places that the best thing to do is learn to sail a dinghy first and there is no doubt I will expect to be in the water at some point I'll have a look today at various competent crew courses too, seems that is a great place to start also.
fat80b thanks for all your links too, they've been most helpful. I didn't realize that groups of people set sail over the Atlantic together, makes great sense from a safety point of view in particular. We will definitely look in to that when the time arises!
RobM77 - Your uncle sounds mad, I love it
Myself and my missus have been together for a few years and know each other inside out. We pick each other up, so when the going gets tough on the boat, both mentally and physically we will be fine Cleaning each others No.2's will be interesting too
In regards to practical things on board, I like to think I'd be ok. I used to design kitchens and bathrooms a number of years ago and spent many hours with plumbers and electricians learning from them. Now I'm a signalling design engineer (railways) which requires electrical and circuitry knowledge also, so we should be ok (I hope)
I'd read in various places that the best thing to do is learn to sail a dinghy first and there is no doubt I will expect to be in the water at some point
I'll have a look today at various competent crew courses too, seems that is a great place to start also.fat80b thanks for all your links too, they've been most helpful. I didn't realize that groups of people set sail over the Atlantic together, makes great sense from a safety point of view in particular. We will definitely look in to that when the time arises!
RobM77 - Your uncle sounds mad, I love it
Myself and my missus have been together for a few years and know each other inside out. We pick each other up, so when the going gets tough on the boat, both mentally and physically we will be fine
Cleaning each others No.2's will be interesting too In regards to practical things on board, I like to think I'd be ok. I used to design kitchens and bathrooms a number of years ago and spent many hours with plumbers and electricians learning from them. Now I'm a signalling design engineer (railways) which requires electrical and circuitry knowledge also, so we should be ok (I hope)
There's some seriously sound advice above. i particularly agree with the suggestion that you start by dinghy sailing, as that will give you a feel for wind/ seat-of-the-pants sailing. That, plus some RYA courses will let you find out - fairly cheaply - if you actually LIKE sailing. For every glorious kite-up, creaming downwind moment, there is also a going-nowhere upwind, blocked toilet, seasick moment.
I sailed across the Atlantic (Grand Canary to St Lucia) with a guy on a £500k new yacht, who had sold his business for millions and had done every big-boat sailing course there was; HOWEVER, he still couldn't sail very well!! No instinct for where the wind was/spotting wind shifts/or sailing the boat by hand. Plug in the auto helm and get the beer out!! Had he spent a summer crewing with his wife in a dinghy, he would have saved himself (and me) several "brown-trouser" moments in the middle of the ocean.
I sailed across the Atlantic (Grand Canary to St Lucia) with a guy on a £500k new yacht, who had sold his business for millions and had done every big-boat sailing course there was; HOWEVER, he still couldn't sail very well!! No instinct for where the wind was/spotting wind shifts/or sailing the boat by hand. Plug in the auto helm and get the beer out!! Had he spent a summer crewing with his wife in a dinghy, he would have saved himself (and me) several "brown-trouser" moments in the middle of the ocean.
MaxNg said:
That, plus some RYA courses will let you find out - fairly cheaply - if you actually LIKE sailing.
This is a very good point. I thought I'd enjoy sailing, but did an RYA course and couldn't get on with it. The instructor was a bit of a tt, so I had another go somewhere else, but still didn't like it. I then had a go at windsurfing and loved it immediately.Ayahuasca said:
When Chay Blythe set out on the first solo non-stop round the world race he couldn't sail either. He had no experience, no training, no knowledge of how to sail, not even a dinghy. His plan was to pick it up as he went along. He did alright.
Never knew that! Sounds like I need to read up on him, interesting chap.When you say Europe, do you mean inside or outside?
The med is great for learning, no tides, and all pretty easy. Outside is probably nicer in a lot of ways, I really fancy heading north to the fiords, etc. but my old tub is on the wrong side of France.
However, though the pillars of Hercules is another matter entirely and I'd seriously think about doing some UK sailing before heading out that way, to get the hang of inclement weather.
That said, we saw a F9 in France in July a couple of years ago and the whole season was similar, very blowy.
What sort of yacht you thinking of? Modern Bavaria type thing with all the toys or a reliable old Westerly or Moody?
The med is great for learning, no tides, and all pretty easy. Outside is probably nicer in a lot of ways, I really fancy heading north to the fiords, etc. but my old tub is on the wrong side of France.
However, though the pillars of Hercules is another matter entirely and I'd seriously think about doing some UK sailing before heading out that way, to get the hang of inclement weather.
That said, we saw a F9 in France in July a couple of years ago and the whole season was similar, very blowy.
What sort of yacht you thinking of? Modern Bavaria type thing with all the toys or a reliable old Westerly or Moody?
maser_spyder said:
Ayahuasca said:
When Chay Blythe set out on the first solo non-stop round the world race he couldn't sail either. He had no experience, no training, no knowledge of how to sail, not even a dinghy. His plan was to pick it up as he went along. He did alright.
Never knew that! Sounds like I need to read up on him, interesting chap.
maser_spyder said:
When you say Europe, do you mean inside or outside?
The med is great for learning, no tides, and all pretty easy. Outside is probably nicer in a lot of ways, I really fancy heading north to the fiords, etc. but my old tub is on the wrong side of France.
However, though the pillars of Hercules is another matter entirely and I'd seriously think about doing some UK sailing before heading out that way, to get the hang of inclement weather.
That said, we saw a F9 in France in July a couple of years ago and the whole season was similar, very blowy.
What sort of yacht you thinking of? Modern Bavaria type thing with all the toys or a reliable old Westerly or Moody?
Definitely inside Europe to start us off, not got as far a route planning etc yet but would like to do as much or inner Europe as timescale will allow us.The med is great for learning, no tides, and all pretty easy. Outside is probably nicer in a lot of ways, I really fancy heading north to the fiords, etc. but my old tub is on the wrong side of France.
However, though the pillars of Hercules is another matter entirely and I'd seriously think about doing some UK sailing before heading out that way, to get the hang of inclement weather.
That said, we saw a F9 in France in July a couple of years ago and the whole season was similar, very blowy.
What sort of yacht you thinking of? Modern Bavaria type thing with all the toys or a reliable old Westerly or Moody?
I've been looking at various boats and not entirely sure which way to go, plus I'm only just learning about all things yacht! Would prefer something around 40ft but that means buying an older cheaper one like:
http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/2005/BeneteauOce...
Or is it better to go for something a little shorter and newer but still a little more expensive like:
http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/2009/Jeanneau-Su...
Is the extra 4 ft going to make a big difference? There will be just the two of us most of the time until friends, family etc come and visit so I'd imagine the 36ft has ample space for us both.
Thanks for all your comments
The bloke out the Vaga videos was a total novice when he bought the boat wasn't he?
IIRC they made pretty much every mistake going at the start but sort of hung around the Med until they'd figured it all out. Interesting to see how competent they got and how quickly, over the months.
I'd say just do it. Maybe do a Day Skipper or something to get the absolute basics down and then just have at it. Think about it too long and you won't.
IIRC they made pretty much every mistake going at the start but sort of hung around the Med until they'd figured it all out. Interesting to see how competent they got and how quickly, over the months.
I'd say just do it. Maybe do a Day Skipper or something to get the absolute basics down and then just have at it. Think about it too long and you won't.
Thanks for all your advice again guys, it's really helping and is much appreciated.
It seems that having the extra 4ft will make a big difference to living and a larger boat will handle rougher weather better? Using the two boats I linked to, what are opinions on them in regard to old vs new? Is a boat that is 2005 going to have more problems and niggles than a newer one at 2008-9?
It seems that having the extra 4ft will make a big difference to living and a larger boat will handle rougher weather better? Using the two boats I linked to, what are opinions on them in regard to old vs new? Is a boat that is 2005 going to have more problems and niggles than a newer one at 2008-9?
GTO-3R said:
Thanks for all your advice again guys, it's really helping and is much appreciated.
It seems that having the extra 4ft will make a big difference to living and a larger boat will handle rougher weather better? Using the two boats I linked to, what are opinions on them in regard to old vs new? Is a boat that is 2005 going to have more problems and niggles than a newer one at 2008-9?
Quite a big difference in price, note one is tax paid, the other isn't. Can make 20% extra of difference. It seems that having the extra 4ft will make a big difference to living and a larger boat will handle rougher weather better? Using the two boats I linked to, what are opinions on them in regard to old vs new? Is a boat that is 2005 going to have more problems and niggles than a newer one at 2008-9?
Beneteau lost a bit of credibility (and possibly/probably affected resale values) after Cheeki Rafiki was lost. Jeanneau is middle of the road, my first yacht was a Sun Odyssey, loved it.
If you're planning to do the med first, why not go for something easy to handle, and possibly trade up to an 'ocean' boat later? The prep for the yacht is quite different too. Horses for courses and all that.
Extra 4' is noticeable! But get down to a brokers and poke around, you'll quickly get the measure of it. London boat show is on for a couple more days if you have time for that.
The general rule (and as has been said above, a lot depends on the layout), up to 40' is manageable for 2 people, over 40' you really need three. Of course, if you have electric winches and remote helm and gubbins like that you could probably go solo on a 60 footer, but it would be stressful.
My tub is 39' and I'm perfectly happy handling her on my own. That said, I cut my teeth on a little 25 footer and that was perfect for solo learning.
There are ways and means of solo sailing (and short handed, kids, etc.), and with practice, it's all possible.
Example, med parking is stern to pontoon and pick up a line to a chain/warp to the bow. This can take as many as five (helm, port/sb stern lines, roaming fender, bow line) to do it nicely. OR, solo, prep stern lines before going in, back in, throw one line over bollard/cleat, helm, throw second line over, forwards gear at tickover and take your time with the bow line as the prop is doing the hard work.
If you can get your head around the pushing forces of the prop, wind, tide, etc. you can think a situation through long before you get there. Most of sailing is prudence and preparation, solo sailing doubly so.
If you're keen, get on a VHF course ASAP, it's essential, one day, £100, and the license lasts forever. The knowledge you get from this will help with RYA day skipper.
When I was boat shopping I went to Croatia in February. Hire car £60 a week, hotels £15-20 per night, and hundreds of yachts for sale in a 150km run down the coast. Saw a lot of dogs and one stonker. Even the stonker needed some upgrades, new outboard, new plotter, kedge anchor, engine service, friction plate, radio, liferaft, spare life jackets, the list goes on... Ended up spending about £4k extra on gubbins and the boat was fully kitted out already.
Most of all, prepare your wallet....
We've just done a similar thing to you:
Sold house.
Quit work.
Gone.
The furthest we had sailed before we left was Brighton to Eastbourne. We are in Gibraltar (La Linea in Spain to be precise) now, having left mid September.
We are in an old (1973) 35ft boat, a Nicholson 35.
The best advice people gave us was to stop talking about it and actually leave. Marinas are full of people who are leaving next year.
Just do it.
www.roserambler.wordpress.com
Sold house.
Quit work.
Gone.
The furthest we had sailed before we left was Brighton to Eastbourne. We are in Gibraltar (La Linea in Spain to be precise) now, having left mid September.
We are in an old (1973) 35ft boat, a Nicholson 35.
The best advice people gave us was to stop talking about it and actually leave. Marinas are full of people who are leaving next year.
Just do it.
www.roserambler.wordpress.com
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