What's the catch with boats in London?
Discussion
I've been offered a job in London. But it's going to be pain to get to from home - theoretically 1h20 but in practice it'll probably be more like 2 hours by the time I've walked all the way around inside the Tube Station and hung around waiting for the next train home.
Looking at flats, I found that they seem to have boats on RightMove (no, really).
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...
Non-residential moorings don't bother me as it's only for during the week ... but there must be a catch? The Mooring fees work out at a lot less than half what you'd pay to rent a flat, and you can always sell the boat on (although I guess it is an illiquid market).
So I guess the reason people don't do it is because there's some other hidden cost?
Any comments?
I used to live just up the canal from the second boat you've linked.
The towpath there floods a couple of times a month when the tide is really high which could be annoying if you'd just got home from work. It also felt a bit dicey walking down from the road at night through all the warehouses.
Apart from that it was brilliant. Quiet, loads of wildlife and particularly interesting neighbours - we had an explorer for the RGS and a lady who formerly manned the UFO desk at MI5!
Our boat was the only one on the mooring with a pump out toilet, all the others were chemical and ours had central heating which wasn't that common. It was also really wide so the roof was a bit like a having a garden.
I still miss the place 15 years later and it was way nicer than the crumby flats I lived in afterwards.
The towpath there floods a couple of times a month when the tide is really high which could be annoying if you'd just got home from work. It also felt a bit dicey walking down from the road at night through all the warehouses.
Apart from that it was brilliant. Quiet, loads of wildlife and particularly interesting neighbours - we had an explorer for the RGS and a lady who formerly manned the UFO desk at MI5!
Our boat was the only one on the mooring with a pump out toilet, all the others were chemical and ours had central heating which wasn't that common. It was also really wide so the roof was a bit like a having a garden.
I still miss the place 15 years later and it was way nicer than the crumby flats I lived in afterwards.
Solemate looks impressive, I was expecting a static narrow-boat or barge!
Is the £100K just the boat or some mooring fees too?
I'm not familiar with Thames rules but you may need a river licence, and insurance and a safety certificate every four years (though these are inexpensive in the scheme of things).
Compared to a house you'll find the structure and fittings a bit lightweight, and it will get cold quickly once the heating is off. And if you can't stay on it at weekends and work Mon-Fri cruising will be limted - it seems a shame to have aboat like that and not go anywhere in it...
Is the £100K just the boat or some mooring fees too?
I'm not familiar with Thames rules but you may need a river licence, and insurance and a safety certificate every four years (though these are inexpensive in the scheme of things).
Compared to a house you'll find the structure and fittings a bit lightweight, and it will get cold quickly once the heating is off. And if you can't stay on it at weekends and work Mon-Fri cruising will be limted - it seems a shame to have aboat like that and not go anywhere in it...
From the research I've done, it's just the boat in the price and the mooring fees are extra (in fact, the Soulmate one appears to have a 5% fee payable to the marina to transfer the mooring - ouch).
Annual mooring fees seems to be anywhere from 5 to 10K, which still isn't that bad. Although it looks like the boats are about double the price they should be outside the capital (just like everything else).
I suspect that if you cast off on a Friday night and tootled around for two nights up the river, that wouldn't be an issue - the restriction on the mooring being that you can't live on that mooring for the entire week. So it wouldn't be wasted ... although you'd get a bit bored of the same stretch of river for your cruises :-)
Annual mooring fees seems to be anywhere from 5 to 10K, which still isn't that bad. Although it looks like the boats are about double the price they should be outside the capital (just like everything else).
I suspect that if you cast off on a Friday night and tootled around for two nights up the river, that wouldn't be an issue - the restriction on the mooring being that you can't live on that mooring for the entire week. So it wouldn't be wasted ... although you'd get a bit bored of the same stretch of river for your cruises :-)
Flooble said:
From the research I've done, it's just the boat in the price and the mooring fees are extra (in fact, the Soulmate one appears to have a 5% fee payable to the marina to transfer the mooring - ouch).
Sounds like a complete rip-off but you'll just have to factor it in.Flooble said:
Annual mooring fees seems to be anywhere from 5 to 10K, which still isn't that bad. Although it looks like the boats are about double the price they should be outside the capital (just like everything else).
They can of course move around - no reason you couldn't buy a boat somewhere else and cruise/low-loader it where you want it.Flooble said:
I suspect that if you cast off on a Friday night and tootled around for two nights up the river, that wouldn't be an issue - the restriction on the mooring being that you can't live on that mooring for the entire week. So it wouldn't be wasted ... although you'd get a bit bored of the same stretch of river for your cruises :-)
Maybe not - in my case (Fens) the river is different every time because the weather makes so much difference. I have a few favourite spots 30-90 mins cruise away; you can enjoy being on a boat even when it's moored, quite different from being in a house.Surely the big difference with a boat is that it is a depreciating asset? Generally we would expect bricks and mortar to increase in value, a boat wont.
However factor in depreciation, mooring fees etc and living on a boat may be cheaper than renting!
Incidentally what's wrong with 2 hours door to door? Had a discussion with someone today, takes them an hour to hour 1/4 to do door to door from Kings Cross to Lewisham. Takes me 2 hours to get to deepest Sussex. The extra 45 mins is worth spending!
However factor in depreciation, mooring fees etc and living on a boat may be cheaper than renting!
Incidentally what's wrong with 2 hours door to door? Had a discussion with someone today, takes them an hour to hour 1/4 to do door to door from Kings Cross to Lewisham. Takes me 2 hours to get to deepest Sussex. The extra 45 mins is worth spending!
Yeah, I was only comparing it with the cost of renting - never going to be able to buy somewhere in London! Besides, even owned flats have service charges which start to rack up, plus council tax. I already own a house in the country which I am quite happy with.
The job I've been offered is a 45 hour contractual work week (i.e. you are in the office for 50 hours; unpaid lunch break). Being US owned I also anticipate that there will be an expectation to stick around for late night conference calls at a time to suit the Americans rather than the Brits, so I expect plenty of days where I don't escape till 2200 or later.
Don't really fancy adding an extra four hours a day (i.e. 20 hours a week) to the 50 hours in the office + some late nights where I basically wouldn't have time to get home before having to turn around to get back again.
Having somewhere within 30 minutes or so would be ideal, without having to give up the "country seat" :-)
The job I've been offered is a 45 hour contractual work week (i.e. you are in the office for 50 hours; unpaid lunch break). Being US owned I also anticipate that there will be an expectation to stick around for late night conference calls at a time to suit the Americans rather than the Brits, so I expect plenty of days where I don't escape till 2200 or later.
Don't really fancy adding an extra four hours a day (i.e. 20 hours a week) to the 50 hours in the office + some late nights where I basically wouldn't have time to get home before having to turn around to get back again.
Having somewhere within 30 minutes or so would be ideal, without having to give up the "country seat" :-)
One issue with boats is that you can't generally get a mortgage on one, so you either have to take out a loan or have the cash available to buy it.
My sister lived on a canal boat in London for a few years as it was a cheaper way of living. She had a big boat and as her other half was a student in London at the time, it meant that there was generally someone on-board all of the time, which cut down a lot of tthe issues such as having to empty toilets, keep solid fuel fires going and keep on top of ensuring the batteries/water tanks were topped up. I wouldn't want to do it and work full time too, where when you get back home, all you want to do is collapse in a heap, unless you are hooked up to shore power etc you really can't do.
There are a few other costs if you don't have a permanent berth, such as a waterways permit, which is around £600 a year I think. You also have to move regularly (every couple of weeks I think) if you don't have a mooring.
She got round it, as we have a few moorings where we live and so I let her register the boat at one of mine. That meant she had a permanent berth (though in reality no way of ever getting her boat to it) and cut down hassle from waterways and for insurance purposes for some reason.
She absolutely loved and so did I I when I used to go and stay with her, go for as big a boat as you can and be prepared that it's more work than a flat, but if you're prepared for it, then it's a great way of living more cheaply and in a more interesting way too.
My sister lived on a canal boat in London for a few years as it was a cheaper way of living. She had a big boat and as her other half was a student in London at the time, it meant that there was generally someone on-board all of the time, which cut down a lot of tthe issues such as having to empty toilets, keep solid fuel fires going and keep on top of ensuring the batteries/water tanks were topped up. I wouldn't want to do it and work full time too, where when you get back home, all you want to do is collapse in a heap, unless you are hooked up to shore power etc you really can't do.
There are a few other costs if you don't have a permanent berth, such as a waterways permit, which is around £600 a year I think. You also have to move regularly (every couple of weeks I think) if you don't have a mooring.
She got round it, as we have a few moorings where we live and so I let her register the boat at one of mine. That meant she had a permanent berth (though in reality no way of ever getting her boat to it) and cut down hassle from waterways and for insurance purposes for some reason.
She absolutely loved and so did I I when I used to go and stay with her, go for as big a boat as you can and be prepared that it's more work than a flat, but if you're prepared for it, then it's a great way of living more cheaply and in a more interesting way too.
Chrisgr31 said:
Surely the big difference with a boat is that it is a depreciating asset? Generally we would expect bricks and mortar to increase in value, a boat wont.
If you buy a boat 10+ years old (as most of them are) depreciation is quite gentle - certainly nothing as bad as cars.See if you can work out the licence fee here - it goes by area: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Usual bureaucratic hodge-podge!
The Canal and River trust seem to be a bit more on the ball : https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways...
The Canal and River trust seem to be a bit more on the ball : https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways...
Flooble said:
Usual bureaucratic hodge-podge!
The Canal and River trust seem to be a bit more on the ball : https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways...
Bloody hell, they're even more expensive than the EA! I pay £450 on the Fens; on a CRT navigation it would be £554 including prompt payment discount.The Canal and River trust seem to be a bit more on the ball : https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways...
Considering how many miles you travel in a boat per year, compared to a car... well, you can tax a Jaguar XKR 5.0 for only £505. Leisure should not be this expensive.
By contrast on the Broads (Broads Authority) it would be only £276: http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/boating/owning-...
Back in the '80s my father paid £50pa, there was no safety test or insurance needed, and you could use low-tax fuel. Life was so much simpler then.
London is so nuts now that a room in a house or flat is about £800 per month!
Monday-Friday let means you have all the hassle of lugging down a week's worth of clothes - I've done Monday-Friday working away before and it is a pain, not so bad if you are driving somewhere but when travelling by train (as you must, if you are in the centre of London)
Monday-Friday let means you have all the hassle of lugging down a week's worth of clothes - I've done Monday-Friday working away before and it is a pain, not so bad if you are driving somewhere but when travelling by train (as you must, if you are in the centre of London)
Flooble said:
I guess you've not seen the price of the "gold" licence then :-)
And the VHF licence ...
And the marina fees ...
Gone off the idea a bit now!
Well there are two things here, romance, cost and practicality. OK three things.And the VHF licence ...
And the marina fees ...
Gone off the idea a bit now!
Cost is easy, do the sums but remember a house costs council tax and utility bills.
Practicality - house wins.
Romance - boat wins.
So you may as well toss a coin!
Or Plan C - buy a house and have a hireboat holiday
My brother in law lives on a narrow boat based in Northolt. They drive it down to the city at weekends. The boat cost them about £20k and the mooring fees arn't a huge amount. Bearing in mind their rent was about £2k/month for a 2 bedroom flat it pretty much paid for itself in a year.
Only hassle they have had is having to drag it out the water to repaint the bottom of the hull, and the engine (little perkins diesel) had to be overhauled but they got stuck in and did lots themselves which saved a lot of labour. I think it's an acquired taste in terms of lifestyle (cold in winter, limited space etc.) but they love it and it's given them an opportunity to save money to put towards a deposit on a property as the boat can be sold for pretty much what they paid for it.
Only hassle they have had is having to drag it out the water to repaint the bottom of the hull, and the engine (little perkins diesel) had to be overhauled but they got stuck in and did lots themselves which saved a lot of labour. I think it's an acquired taste in terms of lifestyle (cold in winter, limited space etc.) but they love it and it's given them an opportunity to save money to put towards a deposit on a property as the boat can be sold for pretty much what they paid for it.
Great to hear that someone has made it work - £2K a month in rent is bonkers isn't it? It shows how badly Britain is broken that I've had second thoughts on taking this job, which is paying not far off the 45% income tax bracket. I can live on well under half the money with more or less the same net income, just by staying away from London. I don't know how the vast majority of Londoners do it.
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