A couple of RAF / military fast jet questions
Discussion
A couple of things I wondered as I listen to a Hawk and an F15E over my office in North Yorkshire.
1) Day to day what do fast jet crews do? Is their training all pre-planned sorties and imaginary targets or do they sometimes just go for a mooch?
2) The one I was watching on ADS-B Exchange was callsign Pirate18, would they use that callsign when speaking to ATC or would they use their aircraft number XX etc?
1) Day to day what do fast jet crews do? Is their training all pre-planned sorties and imaginary targets or do they sometimes just go for a mooch?
2) The one I was watching on ADS-B Exchange was callsign Pirate18, would they use that callsign when speaking to ATC or would they use their aircraft number XX etc?
If you are flying from a small grass strip in a Cessna and are staying VFR and out of controlled airspace you don't need to do any planning (assuming you mean filing flight plans) whatsoever, you don't even need to talk to anybody over the radio if you don't want to!
In GA land we tend to use the G-**** number from the aircraft, but a formation will often give its self a name, a while back I heard "Voodoo Formation" over the radio (two aircraft). If you have a flick through CAP413 you will find all the information you need on call signs and the like
In GA land we tend to use the G-**** number from the aircraft, but a formation will often give its self a name, a while back I heard "Voodoo Formation" over the radio (two aircraft). If you have a flick through CAP413 you will find all the information you need on call signs and the like
Edited by PanzerCommander on Tuesday 7th June 12:53
markmullen said:
A couple of things I wondered as I listen to a Hawk and an F15E over my office in North Yorkshire.
1) Day to day what do fast jet crews do? Is their training all pre-planned sorties and imaginary targets or do they sometimes just go for a mooch?
2) The one I was watching on ADS-B Exchange was callsign Pirate18, would they use that callsign when speaking to ATC or would they use their aircraft number XX etc?
Every fast jet sortie will have some purpose, but the difficulty and associated planning will vary. Sometime you will be be flying from A to B to pre-position or transit the aircraft. Other times you'll be conducting a sortie to do required monthly training (currency). Sometimes you'll have been planning for hours prior to getting airborne then debriefing for hours when you get back, having taken part in a large scale exercise. I've never been for a mooch, sadly.1) Day to day what do fast jet crews do? Is their training all pre-planned sorties and imaginary targets or do they sometimes just go for a mooch?
2) The one I was watching on ADS-B Exchange was callsign Pirate18, would they use that callsign when speaking to ATC or would they use their aircraft number XX etc?
When airborne, we never use the aircraft's registration number to air traffic control, always a specific callsign. Hope this helps.
PanzerCommander said:
If you are flying from a small grass strip in a Cessna and are staying VFR and out of controlled airspace you don't need to do any planning (assuming you mean filing flight plans) whatsoever, you don't even need to talk to anybody over the radio if you don't want to!
Thats my experience, all we did was call the grass strip we where flying to, to make sure it was usable.markmullen said:
A couple of things I wondered as I listen to a Hawk and an F15E over my office in North Yorkshire.
1) Day to day what do fast jet crews do? Is their training all pre-planned sorties and imaginary targets or do they sometimes just go for a mooch?
2) The one I was watching on ADS-B Exchange was callsign Pirate18, would they use that callsign when speaking to ATC or would they use their aircraft number XX etc?
Finally with some spare time!1) Day to day what do fast jet crews do? Is their training all pre-planned sorties and imaginary targets or do they sometimes just go for a mooch?
2) The one I was watching on ADS-B Exchange was callsign Pirate18, would they use that callsign when speaking to ATC or would they use their aircraft number XX etc?
1) There's normally a mix of tasking (provide Close Air Support to the Army, support an Exercise/flypast etc, provide 'Red Air' (threat simulation) for someone else) and crew training. For example we have a series of qualifications we use on Ops, and some higher-end stuff. We'll also have workups to do for junior guys so they are qualified to lead formations, or ab-initios so that they are 'Combat Ready'. There is still the flexibility to go and have a blat though occasionally! Generally speaking if we don't have external tasking, we'll fly where the weather is best and pick ourselves targets that fit our sortie flow/airspace. Most of the time we don't have to submit a Flight Plan (unless we are planning to use an Airway), but we'll plan our sorties using our Mission Planning software (TAMPA for Tornado, TyAMPA for Typhoon etc) then upload our plan onto CADS (Centralised Aviation Data Service) so that we can deconflict with other mil traffic (and they with us).
2) 'Pirate' is the callsign used for 100 Sqn Hawks, 'Pirate 18' will be the callsign of 'Flight Lieutenant Smith/Bloggs/whatever' who is on 100 Sqn. We also use formation callsigns e.g Warlord, Jedi, Tirpitz etc for pairs (or larger formations) of aircraft. We don't use the aircraft registrations really, because our aircraft are a little less reliable than most civvies!
but when airbourne, can you do what you want (within the parameters of the mission) eg if you have to fly over the north sea, can you decide how fast, high, or is that controlled too??
PS. Tornado. My favourite aircraft. But I'll never be a Blue peter or Top gear presenter. Is there any other way a civilian, could ever, ever get a ride?? Serious question, by the way
PS. Tornado. My favourite aircraft. But I'll never be a Blue peter or Top gear presenter. Is there any other way a civilian, could ever, ever get a ride?? Serious question, by the way
williamp said:
but when airbourne, can you do what you want (within the parameters of the mission) eg if you have to fly over the north sea, can you decide how fast, high, or is that controlled too??
PS. Tornado. My favourite aircraft. But I'll never be a Blue peter or Top gear presenter. Is there any other way a civilian, could ever, ever get a ride?? Serious question, by the way
The answers in order:PS. Tornado. My favourite aircraft. But I'll never be a Blue peter or Top gear presenter. Is there any other way a civilian, could ever, ever get a ride?? Serious question, by the way
Yes, within the limits of the aircraft obviously. We mostly cruise at 420kts-ish but various weaponeering profiles will require different speeds or heights. If doing normal low level we'll be at 250ft agl (or 100ft agl for operational low flying, in 3x specific areas only) but transit flying will be at an appropriate height to minimise fuel burn.
Not really, sorry - unless you give mega bucks to charity or are filming a TV prog etc! Flying hours are scarce enough to keep everyone current as it is, plus very expensive (maybe £40k/hr for Tornado). We do occasional passenger flying, but this is normally for members of the Sqn or Stn who have done a great job and deserve a pat on the back...
frodo_monkey said:
williamp said:
but when airbourne, can you do what you want (within the parameters of the mission) eg if you have to fly over the north sea, can you decide how fast, high, or is that controlled too??
PS. Tornado. My favourite aircraft. But I'll never be a Blue peter or Top gear presenter. Is there any other way a civilian, could ever, ever get a ride?? Serious question, by the way
The answers in order:PS. Tornado. My favourite aircraft. But I'll never be a Blue peter or Top gear presenter. Is there any other way a civilian, could ever, ever get a ride?? Serious question, by the way
Yes, within the limits of the aircraft obviously. We mostly cruise at 420kts-ish but various weaponeering profiles will require different speeds or heights. If doing normal low level we'll be at 250ft agl (or 100ft agl for operational low flying, in 3x specific areas only) but transit flying will be at an appropriate height to minimise fuel burn.
Not really, sorry - unless you give mega bucks to charity or are filming a TV prog etc! Flying hours are scarce enough to keep everyone current as it is, plus very expensive (maybe £40k/hr for Tornado). We do occasional passenger flying, but this is normally for members of the Sqn or Stn who have done a great job and deserve a pat on the back...
Vocal Minority said:
Every day is a school day - I'm surprised the military are that flexible!
VM, sadly it's getting more and more difficult to fly civilian passengers as regulations are such that it requires a relatively high signature level. Certainly significantly less common than it used to be.
Back when I was in the Air Training Corps (ATC or Air Cadets) very few if any cadets got to fly in the fast jets, there was a story (genuine) of one lad who got a back seat ride in a Tornado. Though for the vast (99.99%) majority Air Experience Flights were in RAF Scottish Aviation Bulldogs (just started being phased out as I left) and Grob 109 motor gliders. I remember being sat in the waiting room at RAF Leeming (flying day trip from an ATC summer camp at RAF Boulmer) seeing Hawks going out with only the pilot in; sadly we were never offered a ride in the back seat.
I unfortunately missed out on going flying in a Chinook from RAF Odiham at our squadron summer camp to Portsmouth as the assigned aircraft was U/S when I was due to go for that which was disappointing having missed out the previous year because you had to be a First Class cadet (insurance reasons iirc) and being a new cadet at the time I hadn’t done the exam.
I unfortunately missed out on going flying in a Chinook from RAF Odiham at our squadron summer camp to Portsmouth as the assigned aircraft was U/S when I was due to go for that which was disappointing having missed out the previous year because you had to be a First Class cadet (insurance reasons iirc) and being a new cadet at the time I hadn’t done the exam.
Edited by PanzerCommander on Wednesday 8th June 15:23
PAX trips in front line FJs very hard to come by. Hawks are a bit easier as they often fly with one seat empty, however the approval chain mean that there is a rigorous process to follow before you fly. That said we fly ATC cadets when there are camps on, as well as others from the stn pax process. As has been mentioned before however, the best way to get a pax trip is put yourself in a position where the mod can gain money/political favour/good publicity from flying you!
PanzerCommander said:
Back when I was in the Air Training Corps (ATC or Air Cadets) very few if any cadets got to fly in the fast jets, there was a story (genuine) of one lad who got a back seat ride in a Tornado. Though for the vast (99.99%) majority Air Experience Flights were in RAF Scottish Aviation Bulldogs (just started being phased out as I left) and Grob 109 motor gliders. I remember being sat in the waiting room at RAF Leeming (flying day trip from an ATC summer camp at RAF Boulmer) seeing Hawks going out with only the pilot in; sadly we were never offered a ride in the back seat.
I unfortunately missed out on going flying in a Chinook from RAF Odiham at our squadron summer camp to Portsmouth as the assigned aircraft was U/S when I was due to go for that which was disappointing having missed out the previous year because you had to be a First Class cadet (insurance reasons iirc) and being a new cadet at the time I hadn’t done the exam.
My ATC squadron was affiliated with RAF Marham, and "Cadet of the Year" always won a jump-seat ride in a Victor. It was my turn in 1982, but I was scuppered by the Argentinians. I unfortunately missed out on going flying in a Chinook from RAF Odiham at our squadron summer camp to Portsmouth as the assigned aircraft was U/S when I was due to go for that which was disappointing having missed out the previous year because you had to be a First Class cadet (insurance reasons iirc) and being a new cadet at the time I hadn’t done the exam.
Edited by PanzerCommander on Wednesday 8th June 15:23
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