Military refueling
Discussion
Interesting question someone asked me on the basis that I'm into aeroplanes so ought to know.
When an aircraft is refuelled in mid air, does the operating squadron get a bill? Or are they just allocated a certain number of flying hours and use whatever fuel they need?
Come to think of it, what about refuelling away from home base? or even at home base?
When an aircraft is refuelled in mid air, does the operating squadron get a bill? Or are they just allocated a certain number of flying hours and use whatever fuel they need?
Come to think of it, what about refuelling away from home base? or even at home base?
So for the RAF air to air the Sqn just book onto the tanker towline the fuel costs are covered on a central fund like they are at home base. If an aircraft is unable to make the towline once its airborne aircraft squadrons will often get a call offering fuel if it's required.
As for land always each aircraft should have a couple of different fuel cards and if these are not accepted then within the crews nav bag should be a paper form, that is filled out by the refueller 1 copy for them, 1 for the pilot and 1 will be sent to accounts to pay the handlers for the fuel.
At home base it's just a case of calling the refuellers and requesting how much fuel they need, places like Odiham (chinooks, Lynx) also have a bowser permanently at a rotors running refuel pad (RRRF) so you can call up and take fuel whilst rotors are turning to save time.
As for land always each aircraft should have a couple of different fuel cards and if these are not accepted then within the crews nav bag should be a paper form, that is filled out by the refueller 1 copy for them, 1 for the pilot and 1 will be sent to accounts to pay the handlers for the fuel.
At home base it's just a case of calling the refuellers and requesting how much fuel they need, places like Odiham (chinooks, Lynx) also have a bowser permanently at a rotors running refuel pad (RRRF) so you can call up and take fuel whilst rotors are turning to save time.
Edited by ecsrobin on Wednesday 25th January 09:12
williamp said:
ecsrobin said:
As for land always each aircraft should have a couple of different fuel cards
Bet it doesnt take them long to collect enough vouchers for the towels and lead crystal glass!Refuelling at a continental civilian airport, the MoD's fuel cards were, for reasons unknown, declined.
After much deliberation and many phone calls, the quickest, easiest answer was for the aircraft captain to bung the fuel bill on his own credit card.
24hours later he gets a phone call from American Express......
"Hello, there appears to have been some unusual activity on your card...."
"Oh that....yeah I was refuelling my helicopter in Nice"
His next statement arrived with a super-dooper platinum card.
Crossflow Kid said:
Better than that.
Refuelling at a continental civilian airport, the MoD's fuel cards were, for reasons unknown, declined.
After much deliberation and many phone calls, the quickest, easiest answer was for the aircraft captain to bung the fuel bill on his own credit card.
24hours later he gets a phone call from American Express......
"Hello, there appears to have been some unusual activity on your card...."
"Oh that....yeah I was refuelling my helicopter in Nice"
His next statement arrived with a super-dooper platinum card.
Per the regs though you aren't allowed to keep any reward points/Air Miles etc earned! A mate of mine paid to get a 4-ship of Tornados gassed-up a few years back as both the jet fuel cards and his corporate plastic (GPC) were refused. Air Force accounts hierarchy went mental and demanded he sign the Air Miles earned back! Jobsworth blunties...Refuelling at a continental civilian airport, the MoD's fuel cards were, for reasons unknown, declined.
After much deliberation and many phone calls, the quickest, easiest answer was for the aircraft captain to bung the fuel bill on his own credit card.
24hours later he gets a phone call from American Express......
"Hello, there appears to have been some unusual activity on your card...."
"Oh that....yeah I was refuelling my helicopter in Nice"
His next statement arrived with a super-dooper platinum card.
frodo_monkey said:
Per the regs though you aren't allowed to keep any reward points/Air Miles etc earned! A mate of mine paid to get a 4-ship of Tornados gassed-up a few years back as both the jet fuel cards and his corporate plastic (GPC) were refused. Air Force accounts hierarchy went mental and demanded he sign the Air Miles earned back! Jobsworth blunties...
Makes a change from filling up the dreary daily diesel at Tesco.He should have presented the receipt rather than the credit card slip/statement.
Was the transaction into five figures (sterling)?
Crossflow Kid said:
williamp said:
ecsrobin said:
As for land always each aircraft should have a couple of different fuel cards
Bet it doesnt take them long to collect enough vouchers for the towels and lead crystal glass!Refuelling at a continental civilian airport, the MoD's fuel cards were, for reasons unknown, declined.
After much deliberation and many phone calls, the quickest, easiest answer was for the aircraft captain to bung the fuel bill on his own credit card.
24hours later he gets a phone call from American Express......
"Hello, there appears to have been some unusual activity on your card...."
"Oh that....yeah I was refuelling my helicopter in Nice"
His next statement arrived with a super-dooper platinum card.
I did a trip to Singapore and back via Oman over several weeks with 2 aircraft.
I fuelled both and paid the HOTAC. The Bill for the detatchment was just shy of £250,000
A bit like Crossflow Kid's story, AMEX ended up sending me a Gold Card.
I never dared use it though!
And no, no Air Miles (I don't think they existed in those days).
We did a trip via Calcutta and the refuellers refused to take the Shell carnet card (having accepted it they promptly lost it). The only way out was for me to use the AMEX. Upon returning to UK I got investigated by RAF Command Accounts for Fraud!
I fuelled both and paid the HOTAC. The Bill for the detatchment was just shy of £250,000
A bit like Crossflow Kid's story, AMEX ended up sending me a Gold Card.
I never dared use it though!
And no, no Air Miles (I don't think they existed in those days).
We did a trip via Calcutta and the refuellers refused to take the Shell carnet card (having accepted it they promptly lost it). The only way out was for me to use the AMEX. Upon returning to UK I got investigated by RAF Command Accounts for Fraud!
Edited by Ginetta G15 Girl on Wednesday 25th January 23:18
In my last job we used to book in our aircraft to numerous airfields around the world. We were regulars at the majority of airfields/handlers.
A fun one was Djibouti, despite always providing the same service there was often quite a few hundred dollars variance in fees due every time we landed (were talking every few weeks and more than just increases or decreases in the rate of fuel) we were used to that and just incorporated it into our costs, one day we had the crew calling up with them trying to charge 10x the normal rate and only wanting cash they pretty much held the pilot for a couple of days as he didn't have a way to obtain that sort of quantity of cash and they were refusing to take card. Eventually he managed to do a back hander just to get him and the plane out of there.
A very weird situation indeed and we eventually managed to drop the price and pay by card.
A fun one was Djibouti, despite always providing the same service there was often quite a few hundred dollars variance in fees due every time we landed (were talking every few weeks and more than just increases or decreases in the rate of fuel) we were used to that and just incorporated it into our costs, one day we had the crew calling up with them trying to charge 10x the normal rate and only wanting cash they pretty much held the pilot for a couple of days as he didn't have a way to obtain that sort of quantity of cash and they were refusing to take card. Eventually he managed to do a back hander just to get him and the plane out of there.
A very weird situation indeed and we eventually managed to drop the price and pay by card.
ecsrobin said:
In my last job we used to book in our aircraft to numerous airfields around the world. We were regulars at the majority of airfields/handlers.
A fun one was Djibouti, despite always providing the same service there was often quite a few hundred dollars variance in fees due every time we landed (were talking every few weeks and more than just increases or decreases in the rate of fuel) we were used to that and just incorporated it into our costs, one day we had the crew calling up with them trying to charge 10x the normal rate and only wanting cash they pretty much held the pilot for a couple of days as he didn't have a way to obtain that sort of quantity of cash and they were refusing to take card. Eventually he managed to do a back hander just to get him and the plane out of there.
A very weird situation indeed and we eventually managed to drop the price and pay by card.
Paying a backhander now is criminal offence in the UK under the Bribery Act 2010 - bribery of foreign public officials. For getting out of bother in Djibouti the pilot could end up in bother in the UK.A fun one was Djibouti, despite always providing the same service there was often quite a few hundred dollars variance in fees due every time we landed (were talking every few weeks and more than just increases or decreases in the rate of fuel) we were used to that and just incorporated it into our costs, one day we had the crew calling up with them trying to charge 10x the normal rate and only wanting cash they pretty much held the pilot for a couple of days as he didn't have a way to obtain that sort of quantity of cash and they were refusing to take card. Eventually he managed to do a back hander just to get him and the plane out of there.
A very weird situation indeed and we eventually managed to drop the price and pay by card.
Ayahuasca said:
Paying a backhander now is criminal offence in the UK under the Bribery Act 2010 - bribery of foreign public officials. For getting out of bother in Djibouti the pilot could end up in bother in the UK.
I don't think an aircraft dispatcher/refueller in Djibouti is considered a foreign public official.......He also didn't use it to get an advantage in business or to retain business
Ayahuasca said:
ecsrobin said:
In my last job we used to book in our aircraft to numerous airfields around the world. We were regulars at the majority of airfields/handlers.
A fun one was Djibouti, despite always providing the same service there was often quite a few hundred dollars variance in fees due every time we landed (were talking every few weeks and more than just increases or decreases in the rate of fuel) we were used to that and just incorporated it into our costs, one day we had the crew calling up with them trying to charge 10x the normal rate and only wanting cash they pretty much held the pilot for a couple of days as he didn't have a way to obtain that sort of quantity of cash and they were refusing to take card. Eventually he managed to do a back hander just to get him and the plane out of there.
A very weird situation indeed and we eventually managed to drop the price and pay by card.
Paying a backhander now is criminal offence in the UK under the Bribery Act 2010 - bribery of foreign public officials. For getting out of bother in Djibouti the pilot could end up in bother in the UK.A fun one was Djibouti, despite always providing the same service there was often quite a few hundred dollars variance in fees due every time we landed (were talking every few weeks and more than just increases or decreases in the rate of fuel) we were used to that and just incorporated it into our costs, one day we had the crew calling up with them trying to charge 10x the normal rate and only wanting cash they pretty much held the pilot for a couple of days as he didn't have a way to obtain that sort of quantity of cash and they were refusing to take card. Eventually he managed to do a back hander just to get him and the plane out of there.
A very weird situation indeed and we eventually managed to drop the price and pay by card.
Not flown in and out of small foreign airfields that much have you?
Crossflow Kid said:
Ayahuasca said:
ecsrobin said:
In my last job we used to book in our aircraft to numerous airfields around the world. We were regulars at the majority of airfields/handlers.
A fun one was Djibouti, despite always providing the same service there was often quite a few hundred dollars variance in fees due every time we landed (were talking every few weeks and more than just increases or decreases in the rate of fuel) we were used to that and just incorporated it into our costs, one day we had the crew calling up with them trying to charge 10x the normal rate and only wanting cash they pretty much held the pilot for a couple of days as he didn't have a way to obtain that sort of quantity of cash and they were refusing to take card. Eventually he managed to do a back hander just to get him and the plane out of there.
A very weird situation indeed and we eventually managed to drop the price and pay by card.
Paying a backhander now is criminal offence in the UK under the Bribery Act 2010 - bribery of foreign public officials. For getting out of bother in Djibouti the pilot could end up in bother in the UK.A fun one was Djibouti, despite always providing the same service there was often quite a few hundred dollars variance in fees due every time we landed (were talking every few weeks and more than just increases or decreases in the rate of fuel) we were used to that and just incorporated it into our costs, one day we had the crew calling up with them trying to charge 10x the normal rate and only wanting cash they pretty much held the pilot for a couple of days as he didn't have a way to obtain that sort of quantity of cash and they were refusing to take card. Eventually he managed to do a back hander just to get him and the plane out of there.
A very weird situation indeed and we eventually managed to drop the price and pay by card.
Not flown in and out of small foreign airfields that much have you?
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