Discussion
A Swiss 777 earlier this month lost an engine and made an emergency diversion to Iqaluit, a small Northern Canadian airport.
Video of landing - https://www.rts.ch/info/suisse/8355659-atterrissag...
Looks like an interesting time for those on board. The 777 got stuck for 40 minutes, being unable to turn around in the snow... Passengers were served their meal on the ground, while Swiss cancelled a New York outbound flight, so that they could send that A330 to recover the passengers and crew. They were flown to New York, rather than the original destination, LA initially... The boarding /deboarding sounds interesting, with limited ground equipement - the 777 had to be deboarded completely, (pasengers into some borrowed school busses), as the stairs were needed to board the A330.
The 777 remains at Iqaluit, and a Antonov 124 has just flown a replacement engine in place. The engine just squeezed in place. The weather does not sound pleasant for the engineers - -30 degC. Presumably they will build some sort of tent around he engine..
http://www.nunatsiaqonline.ca/stories/article/6567...
It's an interesting show of what happens when these large gets go broken in remote places around the world.
PPrune thread.. http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/590429-swiss-lx...
Video of landing - https://www.rts.ch/info/suisse/8355659-atterrissag...
Looks like an interesting time for those on board. The 777 got stuck for 40 minutes, being unable to turn around in the snow... Passengers were served their meal on the ground, while Swiss cancelled a New York outbound flight, so that they could send that A330 to recover the passengers and crew. They were flown to New York, rather than the original destination, LA initially... The boarding /deboarding sounds interesting, with limited ground equipement - the 777 had to be deboarded completely, (pasengers into some borrowed school busses), as the stairs were needed to board the A330.
The 777 remains at Iqaluit, and a Antonov 124 has just flown a replacement engine in place. The engine just squeezed in place. The weather does not sound pleasant for the engineers - -30 degC. Presumably they will build some sort of tent around he engine..
http://www.nunatsiaqonline.ca/stories/article/6567...
It's an interesting show of what happens when these large gets go broken in remote places around the world.
PPrune thread.. http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/590429-swiss-lx...
It's perhaps worth thinking about when you do a long flight. Many of the diversion airfields on your route will have very different weather conditions to your departure or destination airfields,
There will undoubtedly be long periods of waiting around, often in the middle of the night and with possibly little or no local accommodation or facilities or shops available. It may also be the case that you can't get access to items in your suitcase due to security reasons or a lack of suitable equipment and handling staff at the airport you end up at,
There will undoubtedly be long periods of waiting around, often in the middle of the night and with possibly little or no local accommodation or facilities or shops available. It may also be the case that you can't get access to items in your suitcase due to security reasons or a lack of suitable equipment and handling staff at the airport you end up at,
Back in Jan 2001 I was on a United flight Boeing 777 from LA to Heathrow and we had a medical emergency, a passenger had a major heart attack over Canada. The flight made an emergency stop at a WW2 Bomber base and minor airport in Goose Bay. Oh was it cold, around -30c without any wind chill and the crew had about 40 mins to help the emergency team remove the passenger and family, plus get the flight ready for departure. If we had stayed longer there would have been crew issues re allowed flying time plus safety issues re fuel etc.
When they opened the doors, wow was it cold. Yes they de iced the plane and United lost I believe $60,000 due to this diversion. Epic runway but a truly bleak location to be stuck in hospital, military or civilian.
When they opened the doors, wow was it cold. Yes they de iced the plane and United lost I believe $60,000 due to this diversion. Epic runway but a truly bleak location to be stuck in hospital, military or civilian.
belleair302 said:
Back in Jan 2001 I was on a United flight Boeing 777 from LA to Heathrow and we had a medical emergency, a passenger had a major heart attack over Canada. The flight made an emergency stop at a WW2 Bomber base and minor airport in Goose Bay. Oh was it cold, around -30c without any wind chill and the crew had about 40 mins to help the emergency team remove the passenger and family, plus get the flight ready for departure. If we had stayed longer there would have been crew issues re allowed flying time plus safety issues re fuel etc.
When they opened the doors, wow was it cold. Yes they de iced the plane and United lost I believe $60,000 due to this diversion. Epic runway but a truly bleak location to be stuck in hospital, military or civilian.
reminds me...When they opened the doors, wow was it cold. Yes they de iced the plane and United lost I believe $60,000 due to this diversion. Epic runway but a truly bleak location to be stuck in hospital, military or civilian.
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/gander.asp
belleair302 said:
at a WW2 Bomber base and minor airport in Goose Bay.
Goose was built originally not as a bomber base but as a transit base for a/c transiting across the pond to UK in WW2.It's hardly a 'minor airport', indeed it's not even an 'airport' buta military airfield.
It was extended post WW2 for use by SAC and latterly was the host to the RAF, Luftwaffe and Italian Air Force for Operational Low lying Training.
Amazing aircraft, one of my buddies is a 777 Captain for a major airline. He was telling me that when light (for example on a short distance freighter flight) you have to be very careful not to exceed the company rate of climb limitations, iirc he said theirs is 6500 feet per minute, which seems insane for a large aircraft. He's seen over 8000 feet per minute on an empty aircraft, which is incredible when you think about it....sea level to cruising altitude in under 5 minutes (yes I know climb performance tails off with altitude!).
El stovey said:
It's perhaps worth thinking about when you do a long flight. Many of the diversion airfields on your route will have very different weather conditions to your departure or destination airfields,
There will undoubtedly be long periods of waiting around, often in the middle of the night and with possibly little or no local accommodation or facilities or shops available. It may also be the case that you can't get access to items in your suitcase due to security reasons or a lack of suitable equipment and handling staff at the airport you end up at,
I dunno about outlying backwaters, we were stranded in paris CGD without our luggage for a night (sold an impossible itinerary by air france, courtesy of the FiL) and that was annoying enough. There will undoubtedly be long periods of waiting around, often in the middle of the night and with possibly little or no local accommodation or facilities or shops available. It may also be the case that you can't get access to items in your suitcase due to security reasons or a lack of suitable equipment and handling staff at the airport you end up at,
Whats the frequency of this kind of issue for the average traveller though?
On a slightly different but similar issue The mrs got us some favourably price fares using royal brunei going london-dubai-brunei then brunei-melbourbe; when I flew I was delayed in brunei for 7 hours due to "aircraft rotation" (was supposed to be 2 hours.) I actually got thinking that with an airline that has a half dozen or so widebody jets and at a airport that see's a plane or two an hour, one flight a day in your direction, any serious problem you'd be stuffed a bit. What exactly are the options? At least if you were BA/emirates/quantas etc via somewhere like dubai there's a lot, lot more options for the airline to forward you on promptly.
belleair302 said:
Back in Jan 2001 I was on a United flight Boeing 777 from LA to Heathrow and we had a medical emergency, a passenger had a major heart attack over Canada. The flight made an emergency stop at a WW2 Bomber base and minor airport in Goose Bay. Oh was it cold, around -30c without any wind chill and the crew had about 40 mins to help the emergency team remove the passenger and family, plus get the flight ready for departure. If we had stayed longer there would have been crew issues re allowed flying time plus safety issues re fuel etc.
When they opened the doors, wow was it cold. Yes they de iced the plane and United lost I believe $60,000 due to this diversion. Epic runway but a truly bleak location to be stuck in hospital, military or civilian.
I spent two winters at Goose Bay......Camping. It was chilly. Oh the fun we had in the Military.When they opened the doors, wow was it cold. Yes they de iced the plane and United lost I believe $60,000 due to this diversion. Epic runway but a truly bleak location to be stuck in hospital, military or civilian.
Siko said:
Amazing aircraft, one of my buddies is a 777 Captain for a major airline. He was telling me that when light (for example on a short distance freighter flight) you have to be very careful not to exceed the company rate of climb limitations, iirc he said theirs is 6500 feet per minute, which seems insane for a large aircraft. He's seen over 8000 feet per minute on an empty aircraft, which is incredible when you think about it....sea level to cruising altitude in under 5 minutes (yes I know climb performance tails off with altitude!).
A twin engine jet has to be capable of taking off from V1 (the decision point, after which the pilot is only stopping if the plane will not fly - eg the wings fallen off) onwards, on a single engine. The result is any large twin engine jet has huge engines... On two they will really fly....On the PPRUNE thread there were some wild idea's of ferrying the airplane on a single engine. The problem being that until there is enough air going over the rudder it will be ineffective. Feed the power on the working engine to get to take off speed, your heading off the runway due to the unequal thrust... It's never going to work.
Sheepshanks said:
OK, I guess they wouldn't want to fly over water with one engine, but when they're over land is there not some pressure on the pilots to land somewhere sensible?
I'd seriously hope not. Imagine the fallout if they were to crash after passing a perfectly airfield whilst trying to push on to somewhere that had maintenance support. The term we use is land at nearest suitable. The definition flexes slightly depending on the specific situation. One eng inop on a twin would normally be anywhere you can land and stop safely.
The options on the northerly routes are interesting. Churchill (CYYQ), was an option, one tricky one in Greenland too (BGSF). With Iqaluit (CYFB) they were the best options for about 5hrs. All can take a 747. Not all would see one depart with the same load of pax and fuel that it would want to though.
Just some of the considerations while we're doing "nothing" in the cruise.
Atvb
The options on the northerly routes are interesting. Churchill (CYYQ), was an option, one tricky one in Greenland too (BGSF). With Iqaluit (CYFB) they were the best options for about 5hrs. All can take a 747. Not all would see one depart with the same load of pax and fuel that it would want to though.
Just some of the considerations while we're doing "nothing" in the cruise.
Atvb
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
'Performance A' criteria state that there must be a suitable alternative within 90 minutes flight time in still air with one engine inoperative.
The criteria are extended to 180 minutes for 'ETOPS' flights.
The A350 has been approved for ETOPS 370. I believe there are a number of ETOPS 330 flights now.The criteria are extended to 180 minutes for 'ETOPS' flights.
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