Airbus v Boeing v Bombardier

[Gandahar]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-4153...

Airbus recently in the news with concerns over corruption.


Boeing similarly hit by potential fines over years.

Meanwhile the Russian / China side gets into gear. Far more of an issue I think for the duopoly.

The big two being quite short sighted.

[Eric Mc]

Russia has been trying to develop a global customer base for decades. So far, they have failed and I don't think that's going to change for a long time - if ever. China has hardly got started yet in the world of advanced airliner production.

Buying airliners is as much about trust and confidence in the supplier as it is in building an economic and efficient machine. Neither Russia nor China can guarantee that - yet.

[kurt535]

I don't blame USA protecting their marketplace.

UK really quiet on the matter which leads me to suspect torchlight shone on subsidies has caught govt and their dup best buddies with their pants down.

[Sylvaforever]

kurt535 said:

I don't blame USA protecting their marketplace.

UK really quiet on the matter which leads me to suspect torchlight shone on subsidies has caught govt and their dup best buddies with their pants down.

Except for the minor fact that the aircraft in question isn't a competitor to boing

[Eric Mc]

40 years ago there was far more competition in the world of airliner manufacturing -

Boeing
Lockheed
McDonnell Douglas
Airbus
BAe
Fokker
VFW

That's excluding the Soviet design bureaus.

70 years ago there were even more -

Boeing
Lockheed
Martin
Douglas
Convair
Avro
Bristol
De Havilland
Vickers
Fokker
Canadair
De Havilland Canada
Avro Canada
As well as the Soviet bureau.

Today we have

Boeing
Airbus
Bambardier
Embraer

And the former Soviet bureau plus the Chinese who are attempting top enter the fray using legacy western technology (mainly based on the McDonnel Douglas MD-90 line).

Boeing seems intolerant of competition - which is a very anti-capitalist approach.

[telecat]

I have been looking into this and as I stated on another thread Boeing have form when it comes to this type of behaviour. However they had better watch them selves. Ironically One of the biggest markets for the 737 MAX8 are Canadian Airlines. How is the Canadian government going to react to Boeing's mischief making especially since as previously stated Boeing did not actually put forward one of their designs for the contract! It does seem that the driving force behind this is to get back into Trump's favour by highlighting US jobs over "foreign". This also harms Boeing's Military jets division as Canada were looking at buying Super Hornets and obviously the RAF have orders for Chinook and P-8 ASW aircraft that could well be diverted. I have little doubt BAE, Dassault, SAAB and Lockheed would love to would love a chance to try again for the contract.

[MartG]

Nice article

http://bestfighter4canada.blogspot.co.uk/2017/10/b...

[steve-5snwi]

I read that yesterday and had to laugh, poor old Boeing, its back fired far worse than they could have imagined.

[Ayahuasca]

Boeing said today that it doesn't change anything - that it is just two state-subsidised firms planning to circumvent the US ruling.

Brass necks...

However, a propos of the Airbus deal - part of this is that the new a/c are manufactured in the USA, so how does this help the workers in NI?

[jamiebae]

Ayahuasca said:

Boeing said today that it doesn't change anything - that it is just two state-subsidised firms planning to circumvent the US ruling.

Brass necks...

However, a propos of the Airbus deal - part of this is that the new a/c are manufactured in the USA, so how does this help the workers in NI?

I believe the planes will be assembled in the USA, but from components shipped in from all over the place, including NI. I'm not sure the above article is totally accurate though, from what I've seen even manufacturing the planes in the US may still be seen as trying to avoid tariffs and be punished in some form or another.

It really does look like a daft move by Boeing, given they weren't in the game to fulfil the order themselves and realistically Delta would buy Embraers should the price of the C Series really go up by 300%. I suppose they want to ensure a stretched C Series doesn't take sales from the 737 further down the line and effectively killing the programme would certainly ensure that but in the short term I imagine they're going to come out of this pretty badly indeed.

[AlexIT]

jamiebae said:

I believe the planes will be assembled in the USA, but from components shipped in from all over the place, including NI. I'm not sure the above article is totally accurate though, from what I've seen even manufacturing the planes in the US may still be seen as trying to avoid tariffs and be punished in some form or another.

The issue is that it's probably not different to what Boeing is doing with the 787 with parts being manufactured around the world and assembled in the US.
So if Airbus/Bombardier are being penalized by getting parts from abroad assembled in the US then Boeing will be faced the same accusations.

[anonymous-user]

AlexIT said:

jamiebae said:

I believe the planes will be assembled in the USA, but from components shipped in from all over the place, including NI. I'm not sure the above article is totally accurate though, from what I've seen even manufacturing the planes in the US may still be seen as trying to avoid tariffs and be punished in some form or another.

The issue is that it's probably not different to what Boeing is doing with the 787 with parts being manufactured around the world and assembled in the US.
So if Airbus/Bombardier are being penalized by getting parts from abroad assembled in the US then Boeing will be faced the same accusations.

Don't think of Airbus / Boeing as Aircraft manufacturers: we just design (structure) and assemble.

80%+ of our parts are bought in; we rarely "make" products in house anymore, a notable exception are some of the A380 wing panels for which we had to build / buy an oven large enough to bake them in as one didn't exist.

It is all a big political game as to who / what / where gets the work, in this case, much like the existing A320 FAL in Mobile the parts will be shipped there to be integrated into the A/C. I remember when we used to ships parts to China for assembly (into a wing), then the wing would be shipped back to Broughton for equipping, then back to china for final assembly into the A/C!

Like Boeing, who get massive subsidies / tax breaks from the local state (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/11/business/washington-state-clears-boeing-tax-breaks.html / http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hilt... Airbus will probably ship the C-series final assy to Mobile and offset the import tariffs against job creation in the state and no one every says no to more jobs.

The industrialisation / skill set / supply chain required to support the wing manufacturing facility in NI probably means their jobs are safe for now ...