City centre to City centre times

[Flying Phil]

In the 1970's there were a couple of competitions to achieve the fastest times between London and Paris and also London to New York. I wonder what the fastest times are these days using scheduled flights/trains/cars(legal speeds)? With the enhanced security screening I suspect air travel is now the slowest option to Paris?

[aeropilot]

Flying Phil said:

In the 1970's there were a couple of competitions to achieve the fastest times between London and Paris and also London to New York. I wonder what the fastest times are these days using scheduled flights/trains/cars(legal speeds)? With the enhanced security screening I suspect air travel is now the slowest option to Paris?

Other than very long haul, air travel in general is a lot slower than the 1970's.

As you say, the extended time needed before boarding is one factor, but, modern aircraft are actually a little slower than days of old so, actual flight times on short to medium haul will be a little longer.
Long and ultra long haul will be less though, as modern high efficiency extended range airliners can do in one flight what decades ago, had to have intermediate re-fuelling stops.

Perhaps the Daily Mail need to sponsor another Trans-Atlantic Air Race in 2019 as that will be 50 years since they did the one to celebrate the 50th Anniversary of the first translatlantic crossing........

[Shotgun Jon]

aeropilot said:

Other than very long haul, air travel in general is a lot slower than the 1970's.

As you say, the extended time needed before boarding is one factor, but, modern aircraft are actually a little slower than days of old so, actual flight times on short to medium haul will be a little longer.
Long and ultra long haul will be less though, as modern high efficiency extended range airliners can do in one flight what decades ago, had to have intermediate re-fuelling stops.

Perhaps the Daily Mail need to sponsor another Trans-Atlantic Air Race in 2019 as that will be 50 years since they did the one to celebrate the 50th Anniversary of the first translatlantic crossing........

Maybe Branson would enter!?!? Haha

On a serious note is London to Paris quicker on the Eurostar than flying??

[valiant]

Shotgun Jon said:

Maybe Branson would enter!?!? Haha

On a serious note is London to Paris quicker on the Eurostar than flying??

City centre to city centre? I'd say so.

St Pancras is pretty central already (or within a 15 minute tube ride of a more central point) and Gare du Nord is again pretty central. Most central London airport is City (out in Docklands) and CDG is, I think, Paris's most central but still a 'journey' into town. Add in faffing about with security, minimal check in times and general airport faffery, I'd say Eurostar wins hands down.

[Flying Phil]

On the Eurostar website they say that the journey time is 2hr 16min with 30 min check in at St Pancras. So from Central London to STP 15 min on tube? 3 hours total?

[cml24]

Check in at london city is only 20 minutes before the flight. At least for the ones I've taken. (Not that I would, I'm too risk averse!)

Flight time to Paris can't be long, and CDG CMT be that far out of the centre, I don't know though!

[cml24]

35 minute tube to city airport from charring cross. 20 mind check, 1 hour 20 flight to Orly airport and then a 25 minute taxi to Notre dame, or the triumphant arc.

I think the plane has got even this one.

[Yipper]

Private jet from Northolt to Le Bourget is the quickest way to do London to Paris.

Both are very well set up to whip you in and out of town.

[djc206]

Yipper said:

Private jet from Northolt to Le Bourget is the quickest way to do London to Paris.

Both are very well set up to whip you in and out of town.

Northolt is closed a lot at the moment. Best just use City. Or in the moneys no object category just take a helicopter, 80 minutes from city centre to city centre.

[anonymous-user]

I've done rail and air from London to Paris a number of times.
Rail = slower but less prone to cancellation, diversion or weather delays.
Air = fast, gets cancelled/delayed more easily.

[Geneve]

Central London to Central Paris c.80 mins

https://www.atlashelicopters.co.uk/london-batterse...

[valiant]

Yipper said:

Private jet from Northolt to Le Bourget is the quickest way to do London to Paris.

Both are very well set up to whip you in and out of town.

Fairy muff, but what about getting to and from Northolt and Le Bourget to the centre of town? We're don't all have Theresa May's security detail to whisk us to and from the airport you know.

I guess it's how you define it. What central point do you start and finish and using scheduled flights/trains instead of private planes/helicopters/teleportation devices.

[Flying Phil]

Valiant has got the point that I was trying to make in my original post, so let us be more specific and say Marble Arch to the Eiffel Tower by public scheduled transportation. How to achieve the fastest time?.... and who has actually tried?....and what would be the lowest cost method?

[alangla]

Shotgun Jon said:

Maybe Branson would enter!?!? Haha

If he wanted to win, he'd probably have to enter one of his older 747s and instruct the skipper to go as fast as he could. I can't think of anything currently in service that's capable of going any faster.

For domestic journeys, are there many/any that are faster by air than rail? The only ones I can think of are London to Aberdeen, Inverness and Newquay - London City to Cardiff and Stansted to Dundee must run the train pretty close though.

[hairyben]

cml24 said:

35 minute tube to city airport from charring cross. 20 mind check, 1 hour 20 flight to Orly airport and then a 25 minute taxi to Notre dame, or the triumphant arc.

I think the plane has got even this one.

that's all well and good but you wouldn't leave 20 mins to check in. What about all the palava of sprawling airports that take 20 minutes to get anywhere, tube>check in>security>gate, plane lands>gate>passport/security>bags>etc

Personally I'd favour the train even if it took a bit longer on paper...

[alangla]

hairyben said:

cml24 said:

35 minute tube to city airport from charring cross. 20 mind check, 1 hour 20 flight to Orly airport and then a 25 minute taxi to Notre dame, or the triumphant arc.

I think the plane has got even this one.

that's all well and good but you wouldn't leave 20 mins to check in. What about all the palava of sprawling airports that take 20 minutes to get anywhere, tube>check in>security>gate, plane lands>gate>passport/security>bags>etc

Personally I'd favour the train even if it took a bit longer on paper...

City airport is tiny though - 20 minutes is realistic there.
On Eurostar, you can cut the check in from 30 to 10 minutes by changing class from the various leisure tickets to Business Premier. Not sure how that fits with cost effectiveness further up the thread but I imagine a Business Premier ticket + tube will be cheaper than getting to City airport, flying to Charles De Gaulle then the train/Metro to your destination in central Paris.

[aeropilot]

Be interesting to see how far away from the time set by the late AVM Charles Maughan in 1959 when the Daily mail (again) sponsored a London-Paris air race to commemorate the 50th Anniversary of Bleriot's crossing of the channel.

The race was from March Arch to the Arc de Triomphe, and Maughan's time was clocked at 40 mins 44 secs......

Route was used was...

Pillion on the back of a RAF Police dispatch rider from Marble Arch to temp helipad located at Chelsea Reach.
RAF Sycamore helo from Chelsea Reach to RAF Biggin Hill.
RAF Hawker Hunter from Biggin to Villacoublay
RAF helo from Villacoublay to Issy
Pillion ride via RAF Police motorcycle from Issy to the Arc.

I bet the RAF could beat that time today as a Typhoons can operate out of RAF Northolt, and I reckon if you could land a helo closer to Marble Arch to get from there to Northolt, plus the extra acceleration speed of the Typhoon, I wonder if you could get under 30 mins.....??

[hairyben]

aeropilot said:

Be interesting to see how far away from the time set by the late AVM Charles Maughan in 1959 when the Daily mail (again) sponsored a London-Paris air race to commemorate the 50th Anniversary of Bleriot's crossing of the channel.

The race was from March Arch to the Arc de Triomphe, and Maughan's time was clocked at 40 mins 44 secs......

Route was used was...

Pillion on the back of a RAF Police dispatch rider from Marble Arch to temp helipad located at Chelsea Reach.
RAF Sycamore helo from Chelsea Reach to RAF Biggin Hill.
RAF Hawker Hunter from Biggin to Villacoublay
RAF helo from Villacoublay to Issy
Pillion ride via RAF Police motorcycle from Issy to the Arc.

I bet the RAF could beat that time today as a Typhoons can operate out of RAF Northolt, and I reckon if you could land a helo closer to Marble Arch to get from there to Northolt, plus the extra acceleration speed of the Typhoon, I wonder if you could get under 30 mins.....??

Room for a F35 at both ends?

[Yipper]

valiant said:

Yipper said:

Private jet from Northolt to Le Bourget is the quickest way to do London to Paris.

Both are very well set up to whip you in and out of town.

Fairy muff, but what about getting to and from Northolt and Le Bourget to the centre of town? We're don't all have Theresa May's security detail to whisk us to and from the airport you know.

I guess it's how you define it. What central point do you start and finish and using scheduled flights/trains instead of private planes/helicopters/teleportation devices.

All in, by jet from Northolt to Bourget, or helicopter from Battersea to Issy, Marble Arch to Eiffel Tower, door to door, by limo or pillion bike, should be easily doable in well under 3hrs. Cost will be anywhere between £1k and £15k, depending on how you book it.

[aeropilot]

hairyben said:

aeropilot said:

Be interesting to see how far away from the time set by the late AVM Charles Maughan in 1959 when the Daily mail (again) sponsored a London-Paris air race to commemorate the 50th Anniversary of Bleriot's crossing of the channel.

The race was from March Arch to the Arc de Triomphe, and Maughan's time was clocked at 40 mins 44 secs......

Route was used was...

Pillion on the back of a RAF Police dispatch rider from Marble Arch to temp helipad located at Chelsea Reach.
RAF Sycamore helo from Chelsea Reach to RAF Biggin Hill.
RAF Hawker Hunter from Biggin to Villacoublay
RAF helo from Villacoublay to Issy
Pillion ride via RAF Police motorcycle from Issy to the Arc.

I bet the RAF could beat that time today as a Typhoons can operate out of RAF Northolt, and I reckon if you could land a helo closer to Marble Arch to get from there to Northolt, plus the extra acceleration speed of the Typhoon, I wonder if you could get under 30 mins.....??

Room for a F35 at both ends?

50 years ago they got away with getting permission for landing a Harrier in the old St.Pancras coal yard for the DM Trans Atlantic race, no way, in todays anti-noise, anti-forces, anti-fun, anti-just-about-everything world, would they get permission to land a F-35, which is noisier than a noisey-thing from noisesville, anywhere in London.
Would be a good publicity stunt though, for the RAF/RN to try in next year on the 50th Anniversary, as by then we should actually have a few F-35 actually in the UK.
Fly it in-out of City airport would be possible maybe, if attempting the London-New York record time again.
London-Paris I reckon you'd be better off using RAF Northolt which would be a quicker route by motorbike from Marble Arch..?