Civilian fighter jets.

[darren9]

I often bemoan that we can’t see older impressive aircraft at air displays.

I know that keeping aircraft flying is horrendously expensive especially complex jet aircraft but there’s so many interesting types I just think it would be nice to be able to see a few.

I’m thinking specifically of the harrier. For me it was a highlight of most air shows and can do things other aircraft can’t.

I think it’s culturally important due to its role in the falklands and the fact it was the first VTOL jet and a British design.

Would it’s especially complex nature prohibit it from being used by a civilian? I understand there’s one being operated in the U.S by a former pilot of the type but they seem to have a more active ‘scene’ over there.

[DuraAce]

The fun police (CAA) wouldn't allow it.

[Emanresu]

Why does Britain even need to spend money on fighter jets? The days of being a colonial super power are long gone. Now we’re just a tiny insignificant island, even more so since were leaving the eu.

[Dr Jekyll]

There used to be a Harrier on the UK civil register, bit of a special case though.

[Getragdogleg]

Emanresu said:

Why does Britain even need to spend money on fighter jets? The days of being a colonial super power are long gone. Now we’re just a tiny insignificant island, even more so since were leaving the eu.

Well I for one am viewing the leaving of the EU as a great opportunity to start to get back on track with our Empire building and world domination, freed from the shackles of EU suppression we can grow our neutered balls back and take on the world.

I say more fighter jets, more interesting ground breaking British designs and whip the rest of the world back into line.

[aeropilot]

darren9 said:

Would it’s especially complex nature prohibit it from being used by a civilian?

Yes.

Harrier would be classified by CAA in the 'complex' category, and would need OEM support, and that wouldn't be forthcoming from RR and BAe.
Essentially, no 'complex' category aircraft will gain a Permit to Fly in the UK, which rules out just about every type other than what is currently flying/or has been flying.
The only ex-mil jet to ever operate on a CAA Permit to Fly was Vulcan XH558, and that special situation isn't going to happen again.

[Dr Jekyll]

aeropilot said:

Yes.

Harrier would be classified by CAA in the 'complex' category, and would need OEM support, and that wouldn't be forthcoming from RR and BAe.
Essentially, no 'complex' category aircraft will gain a Permit to Fly in the UK, which rules out just about every type other than what is currently flying/or has been flying.
The only ex-mil jet to ever operate on a CAA Permit to Fly was Vulcan XH558, and that special situation isn't going to happen again.

Would even a Hawk or Alpha jet count as complex?

[Ginetta G15 Girl]

Hawk doesn't have fully redundant controls (HYD 1 and HYD2) so would never be allowed on the Civie Register.

[williamp]

Id love to see a retro flying display. Dont greece still fly the F4? Surely there is a Mig25 somewhere. Can we see an f15, display.

[Dr Jekyll]

ThatGuyWhoDoesStuff said:

In the eyes of the CAA, taking a dump is complex.

Whilst there is a written definition of 'complex,' it doesn't mean anything. A Hawk would be entirely 'bespoke' and would have the full weight of scrutiny, if they'd even entertain it at all.

It's also a military jet in active service with several countries. Not a chance in hell.

Hunters have been flown on permits to fly since the early 80s so active service isn't necessarily an issue.

Talking of retro jets I wonder if Iran could be persuaded to send some F14s over for RIAT?

[darren9]

So it’s completely unlikely to happen?

I think xh558 showed just how expensive and troublesome a former military aircraft can be once it’s no longer in the hands of the military.

It’s a shame though as these types are significant pieces of history and while it’s good to see them in museums and the like it’s not quite the same as seeing them do what they were designed to.

[aeropilot]

darren9 said:

So it’s completely unlikely to happen?

Yep.

[Evanivitch]

It's a shame, but I can't imagine we'll see too many modern F1 cars doing the rounds either.

Dr Jekyll said:

There used to be a Harrier on the UK civil register, bit of a special case though.

Surely that'd be a BAE reference airframe?

[Dr Jekyll]

Evanivitch said:

It's a shame, but I can't imagine we'll see too many modern F1 cars doing the rounds either.

Dr Jekyll said:

There used to be a Harrier on the UK civil register, bit of a special case though.

Surely that'd be a BAE reference airframe?

Don't know what a reference airframe is but it was a Hawker Siddeley demonstrator.

[eccles]

darren9 said:

So it’s completely unlikely to happen?

I think xh558 showed just how expensive and troublesome a former military aircraft can be once it’s no longer in the hands of the military.

It’s a shame though as these types are significant pieces of history and while it’s good to see them in museums and the like it’s not quite the same as seeing them do what they were designed to.

' Former military aircraft' is an incredibly broad brush to justify it not happening.There are many ex military Chipmunks out there flying in private hands.
The Vulcan is a whole magnitude different to what the OP is asking. There aren't exactly many historic, 4 jet, airliners flown on the show circuit, so size was definitely a factor (along with many others) with the Vulcan .

I think post Shoreham it's unlikely that we'll see any new, or more modern than the ones already out there, fast jets on the show circuit in the UK.

[Eric Mc]

Evanivitch said:

It's a shame, but I can't imagine we'll see too many modern F1 cars doing the rounds either.

Dr Jekyll said:

There used to be a Harrier on the UK civil register, bit of a special case though.

Surely that'd be a BAE reference airframe?

There were actually two Hawker Siddeley Harriers put on the civilian registry back in the early 1970s. This was done so the Harriers could be used for publicity tours in different parts of the world as some countries might be sensitive to having foreign military aircraft flying in their airspace.





In earlier years, a Gloster Meteor was put on the civil registry for the same purposes as was a Hawker Hunter -

[DJFish]

Here's the chap operating the sea harrier in the USA, I'd imagine he'd need particularly deep pockets, plus my limited understanding is that the regs over there are quite different to the regs over here:
http://warbirdsnews.com/airshow-news/worlds-privat...

[Dr Jekyll]

eccles said:

' Former military aircraft' is an incredibly broad brush to justify it not happening.There are many ex military Chipmunks out there flying in private hands.
The Vulcan is a whole magnitude different to what the OP is asking. There aren't exactly many historic, 4 jet, airliners flown on the show circuit, so size was definitely a factor (along with many others) with the Vulcan .

I think post Shoreham it's unlikely that we'll see any new, or more modern than the ones already out there, fast jets on the show circuit in the UK.

Even apart from Shoreham it's difficult to see what non complex types are left that haven't already flown in private hands. There was talk of restoring a Supermarine Swift some years ago but it came to nothing. There are a few US types that might qualify but types that weren't operated by the RAF or RN don't generally attract enough interest on the UK airshow scene to appear regularly. Mig 15 is the only exception I can think of. Maybe some T33s a few years back when private jet warbirds were a novelty.

[Eric Mc]

Ormond Haydon-Bailey famously operated this cool looking T-33 in the 1970s -

[aeropilot]

Dr Jekyll said:

eccles said:

' Former military aircraft' is an incredibly broad brush to justify it not happening.There are many ex military Chipmunks out there flying in private hands.
The Vulcan is a whole magnitude different to what the OP is asking. There aren't exactly many historic, 4 jet, airliners flown on the show circuit, so size was definitely a factor (along with many others) with the Vulcan .

I think post Shoreham it's unlikely that we'll see any new, or more modern than the ones already out there, fast jets on the show circuit in the UK.

Even apart from Shoreham it's difficult to see what non complex types are left that haven't already flown in private hands. There was talk of restoring a Supermarine Swift some years ago but it came to nothing. There are a few US types that might qualify but types that weren't operated by the RAF or RN don't generally attract enough interest on the UK airshow scene to appear regularly. Mig 15 is the only exception I can think of. Maybe some T33s a few years back when private jet warbirds were a novelty.

Well, we've recently lost the Sea Vixen last year, which it would seem, unless someone with deep pockets comes along to act as a benefactor to get it repaired, we won't see that fly again.
The lovely F-86A was sold back to USA, so we've lost that as well in recent years, and the same operator lost their T-33A back in 2006 in a take-off accident from Duxford.

Other than '558, the closest we've seen a complex category a/c fly with UK reg, not operated under COMA, was the CAA granting test flight permission, for the 3 x Buccs that were destined for ThunderCity in South Africa, as they were recommisioned, test flown and ferry flighted from UK to SA.