NY Helicopter Accident

[crashley]

Terrible loss of life as a result of this accident, but i'm a little bewildered as to why they didn't all get out? Seemingly measured river-landing, and yet there's four fatalities.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/mar/12/he...

Can anyone explain why they simply didn't unbuckle, open a door (perhaps i'm naively assuming if you knew you were going down, you'd pre-empt by having a door adjar) and swim away ?

[Foliage]

crashley said:

Terrible loss of life as a result of this accident, but i'm a little bewildered as to why they didn't all get out? Seemingly measured river-landing, and yet there's four fatalities.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/mar/12/he...

Can anyone explain why they simply didn't unbuckle, open a door (perhaps i'm naively assuming if you knew you were going down, you'd pre-empt by having a door adjar) and swim away ?

They were wearing harnesses so they could photograph while the doors were open, not just buckled in. Its also been reported that the passenger's luggage hit a fuel shut off valve that caused the pilot to do an auto rotation landing into water.

[sooperscoop]

Watch this:
https://youtu.be/VzwDpTWJqmo

Helicopters are very top heavy and roll over even in calm conditions. I assume this one rolled over in a matter of seconds. Then you get hit with cold shock, strapped in an unfamiliar environment in pitch black. That's why only the pilot got out.

I've done the HUET (helicopter underwater escape training) four times now and even I would not fancy my chances.

Edited by sooperscoop on Monday 12th March 16:05

[cuprabob]

The actual footage is on the Sky News page and the helicopter did indeed flip over quickly.

Helicopter goes down in New York river
http://news.sky.com/video/share-11286858

[mko9]

Water temperature was in the low 40F range. You can't function for long in that.

EDIT: Apparently it is not the hypothermia, it is the cold shock.

"When you first go into extremely cold water there is this weird response called a cold shock response. People start to hyperventilate immediately. For one to three minutes you breathe very fast and deep, uncontrollably. If you go underwater, you could swallow water and die."

Edited by mko9 on Monday 12th March 16:13

[The Selfish Gene]

caveat : I am in no way an expert in anyway. However, in my several helicopter lessons - the instructor (one of my best mates) explained to me what would happen if we had to ditch.

Watching the footage - it happened exactly the way he said it would............

If they were in harnesses, granted, that would make getting out much harder I presume.

Tragic event.........pleased for the pilot as his landing appeared text book, and he made it out.

[ukaskew]

crashley said:

Can anyone explain why they simply didn't unbuckle, open a door (perhaps i'm naively assuming if you knew you were going down, you'd pre-empt by having a door adjar) and swim away ?

I'm guessing at a minimum they had a lap belt (or 5 point) as well as a separate harness. You've then got at least one (usually large) camera/lens combo also firmly attached to yourself. From the vid it looks like it went under in seconds.

[Krikkit]

As has been said above it sounds like they were strapped in with unusual restraints, which has probably added to the time it would take to get yourself free. Given how quickly it rolled over (and no doubt started to fill), they would've been submersed in a few seconds.

Horrible, especially for the pilot who no doubt heard and watched them.

[The Selfish Gene]

Krikkit said:

As has been said above it sounds like they were strapped in with unusual restraints, which has probably added to the time it would take to get yourself free. Given how quickly it rolled over (and no doubt started to fill), they would've been submersed in a few seconds.

Horrible, especially for the pilot who no doubt heard and watched them.

and i'm sure briefed them before flight.

I'd be interested to see the harnesses. Surely they should all be attached to the one buckle (a bit like the race car harnesses). If you have to get out fast, you essentially pull one level (or rotate it) and then rest become free.

He came in controlled, the aircraft landed rather than crashed...........there was time surely............?

Granted our pilot, would have opened the door, and undone his belt the second the initial impact was over.

[Eric Mc]

The fact that those who fly in helicopters frequently - such as oil workers and the military - receive formal training in escaping from submerged helicopters - does seem to indicate that getting out of a sinking helicopter is not an easy thing to do.

[ghost83]

The other problem you have is the rotors spinning which is causing the helicopter to tip plus would you want to get out initially knowing as the heli sinks you’re likely to be chop suet

[red_slr]

Looks like the floatation device on the right skid detached in the initial impact causing it to roll.

Yes choppers do the death roll but these lighter helicopters with flotation devices are known for staying right side up. I have flown in helicopters with EFS and always felt pretty safe, esp having seen the training vids and having the pre flight on EFS deployment but having seen this its quite sobering to see how easy the float was ripped off.

From photos I have seen online it looks like the only pax to be wearing normal harness was the front seat guy. The rest all looked to be wearing rigger style harnesses which were probably attached to lanyards by the looks of it which I guess were then attached to a hard point on the floor.

That's a mighty bad situation to find yourself in. Even if the door was open (hard to say for sure) the water would have poured in and within a few seconds they were rolling and probably getting tangled. Pilot will have not been able to do much to help as its a case of get out and by the time he was out it was fully inverted.

Also interesting listening to ATC that there were 2 other helicopters in the area and they reported boats on scene pretty quickly.

[Hilts]

sooperscoop said:

I've done the HUET (helicopter underwater escape training) four times now and even I would not fancy my chances.

I've done it about the same, the last time I closed my eyes to make it more realistic and I ended up in the air pocket inside the 'helicopter'. If it sank I'd have been muerto.

[red_slr]

Well it looks like the floats did not detach and were fully deployed before landing. The aircraft had its rear doors removed which allowed water in very quickly in the initial splash down and once it started to roll over there was no stopping it. Great shame as they had every thing on their side really, calm conditions, daylight, soft landing, aircraft with floats etc. The floats even stopped it from sinking so if they had been able to undo their belts as normal they would have probably just been able to swim out even with the very cold conditions.

[bakerstreet]

Eric Mc said:

The fact that those who fly in helicopters frequently - such as oil workers and the military - receive formal training in escaping from submerged helicopters - does seem to indicate that getting out of a sinking helicopter is not an easy thing to do.

All things relative I suppose. I'm not even going to guess how many times people like USCG practice those drills, but I'd like to think ity becomes muscle memory after numerous drills, so easy when you know how and you have practised lots of times.

Those poor passengers may have never even swum in water that cold, then alone having to unclick them selves and sim out whilst inverted in water thats only just above freezing.

[Geneve]

Sad, for what looked like a completely survivable ditching.



Normally, operating over cold water, immersion suits are prudent wear.

Interesting report in the latest Rotor Torque about the Squirrel that was flipped into the sea at Bergen, Norway, last winter after a fuel tank cover blew up and hit the rotor blades whilst landing on the owners yacht. Much harder inverted impact with the water, but all three occupants survived.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39895317

Edited by Geneve on Monday 19th March 14:09