Train went the wrong way....Possible?

[Shotgun Jon]

So, last night I caught the 17.31 cross county train from Birmingham to stoke.....it arrived into Birmingham 20 mins late so nothing new the there. All seemed well when we left stafford as we got up to speed then all of a sudden the train ground to a halt very sharply. The train manager announced over the tannoy the driver was speaking to the signal box and he would up date us shortly.

Ten mins later there was another announcement to say there was a signalling ERROR and we needed to go back to Stafford before we could resume to stoke. Sure enough the train started to reverse down the line for approx five mins and there we proceeded on our way. What I noticed was when we resumed we went up our normal route and it appeared initially we might have gone up the Crewe line......so, two questions really.....1. We were on a Vogager and I never saw the driver change ends. Did he reverse the train or walk down the outside of the train to get to the other cab? Why didn’t he walk down the inside of the train? Surely safer? And 2. How is it possible for a train on a well known route to go up the wrong line, surely this is v dangerous!!!!

Thanks
Jonathan

[Gareth1974]

I work in the control centre for that area, although I wasn’t at work yesterday, I did hear of signalling problems in the Stafford area. One thing that could have happened was that the failure affected the route from Stafford toward Stoke for trains on the ‘Slow Line’, which is the route these trains typically take when leaving Stafford. There is an alternative route from using the ‘Fast Lines’ from Stafford, which perhaps was unaffected by the failure.

It’s possibly the case that they bought you back into Stafford to take this alternative route.

[BrotherMouzone]

Shotgun Jon said:

So, last night I caught the 17.31 cross county train from Birmingham to stoke.....it arrived into Birmingham 20 mins late so nothing new the there. All seemed well when we left stafford as we got up to speed then all of a sudden the train ground to a halt very sharply. The train manager announced over the tannoy the driver was speaking to the signal box and he would up date us shortly.

Ten mins later there was another announcement to say there was a signalling ERROR and we needed to go back to Stafford before we could resume to stoke. Sure enough the train started to reverse down the line for approx five mins and there we proceeded on our way. What I noticed was when we resumed we went up our normal route and it appeared initially we might have gone up the Crewe line......so, two questions really.....1. We were on a Vogager and I never saw the driver change ends. Did he reverse the train or walk down the outside of the train to get to the other cab? Why didn’t he walk down the inside of the train? Surely safer? And 2. How is it possible for a train on a well known route to go up the wrong line, surely this is v dangerous!!!!

Thanks
Jonathan

Can’t comment on point 1 but the driver should/would have changed ends.

Point 2 I think it’s simply the train being wrong-routed, and the driver didn’t stop the train before the junction, either due to loss of concentration and didn’t spot it in time, or thought it’s on a divisional route (I’m not familiar with that route so not sure if possible) and didn’t question the signaller. It’s not dangerous though.

[Gareth1974]

BrotherMouzone said:

Shotgun Jon said:

So, last night I caught the 17.31 cross county train from Birmingham to stoke.....it arrived into Birmingham 20 mins late so nothing new the there. All seemed well when we left stafford as we got up to speed then all of a sudden the train ground to a halt very sharply. The train manager announced over the tannoy the driver was speaking to the signal box and he would up date us shortly.

Ten mins later there was another announcement to say there was a signalling ERROR and we needed to go back to Stafford before we could resume to stoke. Sure enough the train started to reverse down the line for approx five mins and there we proceeded on our way. What I noticed was when we resumed we went up our normal route and it appeared initially we might have gone up the Crewe line......so, two questions really.....1. We were on a Vogager and I never saw the driver change ends. Did he reverse the train or walk down the outside of the train to get to the other cab? Why didn’t he walk down the inside of the train? Surely safer? And 2. How is it possible for a train on a well known route to go up the wrong line, surely this is v dangerous!!!!

Thanks
Jonathan

Can’t comment on point 1 but the driver should/would have changed ends.

Point 2 I think it’s simply the train being wrong-routed, and the driver didn’t stop the train before the junction, either due to loss of concentration and didn’t spot it in time, or thought it’s on a divisional route (I’m not familiar with that route so not sure if possible) and didn’t question the signaller. It’s not dangerous though.

If the train was simply wrongly routed at Searchlight Lane Jn, it wouldn’t need to set back as far as Stafford. And there were signalling equipment problems yesterday in that area.

[tight5]

Shotgun Jon said:

1. We were on a Vogager and I never saw the driver change ends. Did he reverse the train or walk down the outside of the train to get to the other cab? Why didn’t he walk down the inside of the train? Surely safer?

He would have changed ends.
Avoid the self loading cargo by walking down the track. (avoid any questions and any people standing in the way)

Shotgun Jon said:

2. How is it possible for a train on a well known route to go up the wrong line, surely this is v dangerous!!!!

Not dangerous at all.
The signalling system is failsafe.
Maybe wrong routed ? Sometimes you don't know which way you are going until you are close to the signal. If it is for the wrong route, quick stop, advise signaller, get back behind the signal then go the correct way.

[P5BNij]

At some high speed junctions you don't get the route indication until you're very close to the junction signal, it does still happen occasionally.

It used to happen to me at Knighton Junction south of Leicester a fair bit when Leicester PSB was still in control of the area, but with it being a slow speed junction I'd already dropped my speed down anyway and was always able to stop and question the signalman.

[tight5]

P5BNij said:

At some high speed junctions you don't get the route indication until you're very close to the junction signal, it does still happen occasionally.

Colton Jn. (just south of York) is the worst one in the NE.
VERY bright junction indicators (you get one for either way), masts in the way, can't see which way you are routed till close to it.
Last time I was wrong routed there, I had a loaded 23 HTA coal train doing 60mph. Went nearly a full train length by the signal. No crossings in the way, signaller got me to set back behind the signal then went the correct way. Wakes you up !

[P5BNij]

I've been lucky and always managed to stop when it's happened on my patch! Most of them are slow speed junctions anyway, and the higher speed ones now have preliminary route indicators on the approach anyway, Aynho Jcn for example.

[legzr1]

tight5 said:

Colton Jn. (just south of York) is the worst one in the NE.
VERY bright junction indicators (you get one for either way), masts in the way, can't see which way you are routed till close to it.
Last time I was wrong routed there, I had a loaded 23 HTA coal train doing 60mph. Went nearly a full train length by the signal. No crossings in the way, signaller got me to set back behind the signal then went the correct way. Wakes you up !

I think that one has caught everyone out.

Must be fun when a ‘lecky gets routed down there at 125mph

[alangla]

What would you do in that case? Drop the brake then drop the pan?

Something similar happened at Midcalder a few years ago, Carstairs line was blocked for weekend work, DB were supposed to supply something diesel for the Edinburgh to Polmadie empty sleeper but something got lost in the pipeline - net result was a 90 heading for Shotts several years too early. Sat for ages before a 66 was found to tow it back out the way.

[RemyMartin81D]

Changing ends walking along the cess side rather than inside the train is to avoid the walk of shame....

Also worth noting, in busy junctions with many routes, a jaded driver, brain fade etc.... wrong routes are easy to accept. Goes on a lot more than you realise mostly drivers notice and don't accept the route.

Edited by RemyMartin81D on Sunday 18th March 10:46