One for train boffs

[Simpo Two]

I live half a mile from a railway station and level crossing (gated). For years, ever since I moved in, all I heard from them was the muted sound of trains. But for the last few months, trains are constantly sounding their horns - dozens of times a day. Is there some new rule that says trains have to sound their horns more often?

[Shakermaker]

If the answer is not "there are more trains than before" then maybe consider if there have been other changes to the environment as well - has there been any new building work going up, or buildings being knocked down, trees cut back etc? Which may have either served to block the sounds, or, now funnel the sound more directly to you with some echoing?

[Simpo Two]

No to all, and I don't recall hearing any horns before a few months ago. So I wondered if they now had to sound their horn for the level crossing (despite it being gated).

[SebastienClement]

Any track works going on that require trains to alert engineers?

[Nik da Greek]

Sounds like they might have installed a Whistle Board for the crossing, maybe. Is there also a foot crossing nearby? It's basically a board that instructs drivers to sound their horn at that point... Looks like this, generally on a post besides the line



Usually used on approach to somewhere that the general public can interface with the railway and thus might need advance warning that a train's approaching. Especially common, say, on approach to a foot crossing used by a lot of dog walkers or schoolchildren and especially where the track curves so visibility isn't great. Poor though railway PR currently is, they still tend to try and mitigate the chances of regularly killing random members of the public


It certainly bucks the trend if you have had a new board installed where none previously existed. There's been a definite and concerted move towards reducing the noise impact of the railway over the last few years; powering-down trains left stabled in open sidings overnight, for example. Several Rule Book clauses governing the use of the horn have been removed, so that drivers no longer are required to sound the horn when entering or leaving a tunnel, for example. Nor when passing a signal at danger, which seems a definite backwards step in terms of safety to me

[Simpo Two]

SebastienClement said:

Any track works going on that require trains to alert engineers?

If there are, they're going on a long time - and I haven't seen any engineers around the crossing (though thy could be elsewhere out of sight)

Nik da Greek said:

Sounds like they might have installed a Whistle Board for the crossing, maybe. Is there also a foot crossing nearby?

Not sure about a whistle board. Yes to foot crossing.

Nik da Greek said:

There's been a definite and concerted move towards reducing the noise impact of the railway over the last few years; powering-down trains left stabled in open sidings overnight, for example. Several Rule Book clauses governing the use of the horn have been removed, so that drivers no longer are required to sound the horn when entering or leaving a tunnel, for example. Nor when passing a signal at danger, which seems a definite backwards step in terms of safety to me

Interesting - so things should be getting quieter not noisier!

Thanks for the replies.

[Wacky Racer]

Health and safety I guess.....

Surely It makes sense to sound a horn when a train is emerging from a tunnel....common sense.

[Nik da Greek]

Wacky Racer said:

Health and safety I guess.....

Surely It makes sense to sound a horn when a train is emerging from a tunnel....common sense.

It does. Unfortunately nothing exists in a vacuum and noise abatement NIMBYism has resulted in lots of things that existed for decades as an obvious safety measure being consigned to history. Even fools buying a house next to a yard of sidings are taken seriously and thus... as I mentioned earlier... now have trains turned off overnight, rather than being told "the railway was there for the last 150 years... why did you think the house was so cheap when you bought it?"

(see also Brands Hatch housing estates, Heathrow flight path, etc)

[GIYess]

why would a train be left running all night when not used?? No wonder tickets are so expensive.

[Nik da Greek]

GIYess said:

why would a train be left running all night when not used?? No wonder tickets are so expensive.

They go into a sleep mode anyway so they barely use any power. Every so often the compressor will run for a few seconds to keep air pressure topped up, which apparently is intolerable noise pollution.

If they're switched fully off then the air will gradually bleed away (sometimes to the point there's not even enough left to get the cab door open... bit of a problem) but also there's a massive and time-consuming check procedure and re-boot delay while the computers re-initialise every single system when the train gets switched on again next day. It's probably cheaper to pay the minimal power usage (bearing in mind the conductor rails are lie regardless) than pay the drivers' time to waste an hour out of his day getting the train live again when he could be doing something more productive. Like driving it

[GIYess]

Nik da Greek said:

They go into a sleep mode anyway so they barely use any power. Every so often the compressor will run for a few seconds to keep air pressure topped up, which apparently is intolerable noise pollution.

If they're switched fully off then the air will gradually bleed away (sometimes to the point there's not even enough left to get the cab door open... bit of a problem) but also there's a massive and time-consuming check procedure and re-boot delay while the computers re-initialise every single system when the train gets switched on again next day. It's probably cheaper to pay the minimal power usage (bearing in mind the conductor rails are lie regardless) than pay the drivers' time to waste an hour out of his day getting the train live again when he could be doing something more productive. Like driving it

Oh... Doh I was thinking a diesel loco sitting idling all night.

[Nik da Greek]

Yeah, that'd be annoying

[outnumbered]

Nik da Greek said:

Yeah, that'd be annoying

There were problems a couple of years ago with GWR leaving the engines on 165/166 DMUs running for extended periods overnight in the new Reading depot that is directly opposite existing housing. They eventually changed some working practices to reduce the impact (plus there's less Turbos around the Thames Valley anyway now).

[Dogwatch]

Nik da Greek said:

If they're switched fully off then the air will gradually bleed away (sometimes to the point there's not even enough left to get the cab door open... bit of a problem) but also there's a massive and time-consuming check procedure and re-boot delay while the computers re-initialise every single system when the train gets switched on again next day. It's probably cheaper to pay the minimal power usage (bearing in mind the conductor rails are lie regardless) than pay the drivers' time to waste an hour out of his day getting the train live again when he could be doing something more productive. Like driving it

This caused a BIG accident in Canada. Driver left train of oil tankers for the night on a slight incline with engine idling to maintain brake pressure. Some sort of fire occurred in the engine so brigade attended an switched off the engine. Runaway train derailed in township at foot of incline and the subsequent fire took several days to put out.

There was a big moan from trackside owners in Brighton (well Hove actually) when the Electrostars came in about 15 years ago with horns, far louder than the previous BR stock, being sounded at a tunnel as per then regulations. The Rail Safety board, or whatever, finally caved in and peace was restored.

[JB!]

Nik da Greek said:

GIYess said:

why would a train be left running all night when not used?? No wonder tickets are so expensive.

They go into a sleep mode anyway so they barely use any power. Every so often the compressor will run for a few seconds to keep air pressure topped up, which apparently is intolerable noise pollution.

If they're switched fully off then the air will gradually bleed away (sometimes to the point there's not even enough left to get the cab door open... bit of a problem) but also there's a massive and time-consuming check procedure and re-boot delay while the computers re-initialise every single system when the train gets switched on again next day. It's probably cheaper to pay the minimal power usage (bearing in mind the conductor rails are lie regardless) than pay the drivers' time to waste an hour out of his day getting the train live again when he could be doing something more productive. Like driving it

Alot of trains can be left on Shore supply, a massive power cable that plugs in.

Some, however are easier to leave running at night, certainly some of the engineering fleet prefer to be just left on idle.

As for OP, either workers in the area or bad sighting to the crossing and a whistle board.

[AlunJ]

Also worth noting that we are now required to sound the horn at whistle boards up until midnight and again from 0600, used to stop at 2300 and start again at 0700.

[Red Devil]

Dogwatch said:

Nik da Greek said:

=SRruns on 'the juice'.
If they're switched fully off then the air will gradually bleed away (sometimes to the point there's not even enough left to get the cab door open... bit of a problem) but also there's a massive and time-consuming check procedure and re-boot delay while the computers re-initialise every single system when the train gets switched on again next day. It's probably cheaper to pay the minimal power usage (bearing in mind the conductor rails are lie regardless) than pay the drivers' time to waste an hour out of his day getting the train live again when he could be doing something more productive. Like driving it

This caused a BIG accident in Canada. Driver left train of oil tankers for the night on a slight incline with engine idling to maintain brake pressure. Some sort of fire occurred in the engine so brigade attended an switched off the engine. Runaway train derailed in township at foot of incline and the subsequent fire took several days to put out.

Huge. Lac-Mégantic.

If a sufficient number of handbrakes had been applied to the consist, the runaway wouldn't have happened.
The engine fire was caused by a broken piston

Regarding Nik da Greek's mention of conductor rails, these are only present on DC electrified lines.
With only a few exceptions. those are only to be found in ex-SR territory.
The rest of the electrified lines don't have conductor rails: they are AC overhead.
Only one third of the UK network runs on 'the juice'.
And the third rail only accounts for just over a third of that.

[Nik da Greek]

Red Devil said:

Only one third of the UK network runs on 'the juice'.
And the third rail only accounts for just over a third of that.

That's right. It's just the civilised parts

[mebe]

Nik da Greek said:

It's probably cheaper to pay the minimal power usage (bearing in mind the conductor rails are lie regardless)

Electricity doesn't work like that....

[Rich1973]

Nik da Greek said:

That's right. It's just the civilised parts

Liverpool and its suburbs?