F117 Nighthawk still flying in the USA

[Ayahuasca]

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation...

And one is suspected of being piloted remotely.

I was a bit surprised when they retired them so quickly - their shelf life was far shorter than most military aircraft's.

[Tony1963]

An aircraft's life is measured by flying hours and fatigue. They had the nuts flown of them in the 90s so perhaps they were just 'old' in terms of fatigue. There were lots of new materials and techniques used in their construction that might have thrown up some unforeseen issues.

[LimaDelta]

Can't imagine fatigue was an issue, they weren't exactly being thrown around the sky at 9g. As I understand it the vast majority of their time was spent S&L on autopilot.

[aeropilot]

Ayahuasca said:

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation...

And one is suspected of being piloted remotely.

I was a bit surprised when they retired them so quickly - their shelf life was far shorter than most military aircraft's.

52 of the fleet had to be kept maintained in 'flyable storage' ever since retirement until Fiscal Year 2017 when they were given permission to start gradually disposing of the remaining 52 .....one was rumoured to have crashed last year during one of the periodic crew training flights, killing the pilot, Lt. Col. Eric Schultz.

The intention is to remove 4 of them every year, so it's likely that they will occasionally be seen in the air on crew training flights for a couple more years yet, until the remaining fleet is at the size when they will cease all crew training flights, and the type will be effectively no longer on the inventory.

[Boatbuoy]

I thought they were retired (mothballed) so that their operating budget could be re-allocated towards buying more F-22's?

I don't think airframe life was a part of the decision, it was more to do with costs.

[hairyben]

What can the F-117 offer that isn't bettered by other platforms though? B2, poss F35 and drones will do stealth better on the occasions its required, many other jets and drones can probably drop bombs cheaper per lb, where does this leave the poor old nighthawk?

[aeropilot]

Boatbuoy said:

I thought they were retired (mothballed) so that their operating budget could be re-allocated towards buying more F-22's?

There won't be more F-22's as the line is long closed and tooling gone, and the projected cost of reopening the F-22 production line is eye watering, which is why it's not going to happen.

[Boatbuoy]

aeropilot said:

Boatbuoy said:

I thought they were retired (mothballed) so that their operating budget could be re-allocated towards buying more F-22's?

There won't be more F-22's as the line is long closed and tooling gone, and the projected cost of reopening the F-22 production line is eye watering, which is why it's not going to happen.

No, not now, but at the time they were mothballed.

[anonymous-user]

As mentioned above i understood the retirement to be purely a financial one. The F-117 as an gen1 stealth airframe is very expensive to operate, and requires significant work (on coatings, closures, seals etc) at short hour counts to maintain its stealth

[aeropilot]

Boatbuoy said:

aeropilot said:

Boatbuoy said:

I thought they were retired (mothballed) so that their operating budget could be re-allocated towards buying more F-22's?

There won't be more F-22's as the line is long closed and tooling gone, and the projected cost of reopening the F-22 production line is eye watering, which is why it's not going to happen.

No, not now, but at the time they were mothballed.

Aah......sorry.
Yes, its original projected OSD of 2011/2 was brought forward in order to re-allocate funding for more F-22's, which were then cancelled by the new Obama administration the year after the F-117 was retired.

[Boatbuoy]

aeropilot said:

Boatbuoy said:

aeropilot said:

Boatbuoy said:

I thought they were retired (mothballed) so that their operating budget could be re-allocated towards buying more F-22's?

There won't be more F-22's as the line is long closed and tooling gone, and the projected cost of reopening the F-22 production line is eye watering, which is why it's not going to happen.

No, not now, but at the time they were mothballed.

Aah......sorry.
Yes, its original projected OSD of 2011/2 was brought forward in order to re-allocate funding for more F-22's, which were then cancelled by the new Obama administration the year after the F-117 was retired.

It's all sort of understandable, it's not as if the world was flush with cash at that point in time.

[aeropilot]

Boatbuoy said:

aeropilot said:

Boatbuoy said:

aeropilot said:

Boatbuoy said:

I thought they were retired (mothballed) so that their operating budget could be re-allocated towards buying more F-22's?

There won't be more F-22's as the line is long closed and tooling gone, and the projected cost of reopening the F-22 production line is eye watering, which is why it's not going to happen.

No, not now, but at the time they were mothballed.

Aah......sorry.
Yes, its original projected OSD of 2011/2 was brought forward in order to re-allocate funding for more F-22's, which were then cancelled by the new Obama administration the year after the F-117 was retired.

It's all sort of understandable, it's not as if the world was flush with cash at that point in time.

Plus there was the politics surrounding the bottomless pit of funding for the F-35.......

[Z06George]

I can't seem to find the article, but I remember reading a long time ago there was word of keeping some for use in the Aggressor squadrons to practice stealth interception. I'm guessing at this point that it was all hear say, although I bet they'd look good in that camo!

[RichGault]

Plus the Serbs managed to down one in 1999. The promise and concept of a stealth strike aircraft was vindicated publicly in 1991 but the jets were 10 years old even by then....by the time one was shot down the technology that made them appear somewhat invulnerable to interception was being caught up........
Still great to hear about them still flying though.

[LimaDelta]

RichGault said:

Plus the Serbs managed to down one in 1999. The promise and concept of a stealth strike aircraft was vindicated publicly in 1991 but the jets were 10 years old even by then....by the time one was shot down the technology that made them appear somewhat invulnerable to interception was being caught up........
Still great to hear about them still flying though.

The aircraft are not invisible, just that the ranges of detection are reduced, giving them the opportunity to thread their way through enemy defenses. The problem was that they were getting complacent and continued flying the same routes for each op. The Serbs just moved some of their kit and caught it right where they expected it to be IIRC.

[Ginetta G15 Girl]

LimaDelta said:

The aircraft are not invisible,.

Indeed. While there are Serbian claims that they picked the a/c up at 35+ miles, that is just risible.

The fact is, as you say, the Spams had become complacent and continued to use the same ingress and egress routes (and jet a/c aren't silent). The Serbs moved several batteries of SA3 Goa missiles to cover those routes. They probably got a 'paint' at around 10 miles as the F117's bomb doors opened and at around 8 miles put multiple missiles into the sky. By that time it was 'game over'.

The a/c was intercepted by 2 missiles, the first going over the top and failing to detonate, the second exploding below the a/c causing it to tumble.

[RichGault]

Thanks for the info on that one...always good to have gaps in the knowledge filled.

[Elroy Blue]

The is also a suggestion that a French Air Force Officer passed the flight plans to the Serbs.