Discussion
One of the original 3 x Swiss AF Ju-52's operated by Ju-Air since their retirement from the Swiss AF in the early 80's after over 40 years service.
The one that crashed HB-HOT, was the Ju-52 famously used in the opening and ending sequences of Where Eagles Dare.
Sad day for vintage aviation, and sadder day for the familes of those lost.
The one that crashed HB-HOT, was the Ju-52 famously used in the opening and ending sequences of Where Eagles Dare.
Sad day for vintage aviation, and sadder day for the familes of those lost.
red_slr said:
Looks like its gone nose down into the terrain, of course it could be anything and speculation is frowned upon with these incidents but I would be looking at loss of elevator authority, are they cable operated?
Eyewitness reports and a posted photo taken moments before, indicate a stall and rapid nose down decent into ground. I would assume cable operated control surfaces, yes.
aeropilot said:
red_slr said:
Looks like its gone nose down into the terrain, of course it could be anything and speculation is frowned upon with these incidents but I would be looking at loss of elevator authority, are they cable operated?
Eyewitness reports and a posted photo taken moments before, indicate a stall and rapid nose down decent into ground. I would assume cable operated control surfaces, yes.
Video was taken down when he realised how many people had lost their lives.
Gargamel said:
I live in Switzerland and regularly see one of these flying low level or near Mythen or Pilates mountains.
Such a terrible accident, the Swiss are meticulous about safety so I can’t even think what went wrong...
“When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.” Such a terrible accident, the Swiss are meticulous about safety so I can’t even think what went wrong...
which leaves....
The Brummie said:
aeropilot said:
red_slr said:
Looks like its gone nose down into the terrain, of course it could be anything and speculation is frowned upon with these incidents but I would be looking at loss of elevator authority, are they cable operated?
Eyewitness reports and a posted photo taken moments before, indicate a stall and rapid nose down decent into ground. I would assume cable operated control surfaces, yes.
3 fatal accidents in Switzerland within a few days where high density altitude was probably a contributing factor, with pilots being caught out by the heatwave across Europe.....and mountain flying close to max aircraft performance margins leaves little very little room for errors, even for very experienced crews.
aeropilot said:
3 fatal accidents in Switzerland within a few days where high density altitude was probably a contributing factor, with pilots being caught out by the heatwave across Europe.....and mountain flying close to max aircraft performance margins leaves little very little room for errors, even for very experienced crews.
Never heard of that one. So high density at altitude for whatever reason allows the aeroplane to climb higher than normal, but when it suddenly runs out of that into lower density air Mr Newton takes over, and in such thin air with mountains underneath there's no room to recover...Its the reverse of what you think. High density altitude means the air is very thin which often effects combustion engine aircraft worse as they lose both lift and engine power. Often aircraft will fly towards building terrain and despite applying more power and more elevator the aircraft wont climb and you end up stalling into terrain. Usually catches pilots out who are not familiar with the area so might not apply to this but who knows I guess we will find out at some point.
Simpo Two said:
aeropilot said:
3 fatal accidents in Switzerland within a few days where high density altitude was probably a contributing factor, with pilots being caught out by the heatwave across Europe.....and mountain flying close to max aircraft performance margins leaves little very little room for errors, even for very experienced crews.
Never heard of that one. So high density at altitude for whatever reason allows the aeroplane to climb higher than normal, but when it suddenly runs out of that into lower density air Mr Newton takes over, and in such thin air with mountains underneath there's no room to recover...Density altitude in feet = pressure altitude in feet + (120 x (Outside Air Temp - Standard temperature))
Standard temp is 15C at sea level but decreases about 2C per 1000ft of elevation above sea level.
Example:
The density altitude at 7000 feet above sea level, with a temperature of 18 degrees Celsius and a pressure altitude of 7000 (assuming standard pressure) would be calculated as follows.
•18 – 1 = 17
•17 x 120 = 2040
•2040 + 7000 = 9040 feet Density Altitude
This means the aircraft will perform as if it were at 9,040 feet.
So, you can see with this heatwave in Europe, at high altitudes, if operation an aircraft close to it's service ceiling, encountering a pocket of air in a valley which is 2 or even 3C higher than would be expected and calculated, at that altitude, the aircraft will suddenly be in a situation that it's operating above it's theoretical operating ceiling and just stop flying.......even with a very experienced flight crew aboard, with very height above ground, there's not much room for recovery.
The flight characteristics of a Ju-52 is to roll inverted and dive vertically at the stall, from what I can gather and which from the photographs of the crash site would indicate this a possible scenario.
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