Hiroshima raid
Discussion
Dr Jekyll said:
In theory, would a Lancaster or even a Lincoln have been capable of carrying out the Hiroshima nuclear bombing? I've seen suggestions that it could, but the range seems a bit marginal to me.
Possibly. Bear in mind that the Little Boy bomb was quite small - 4 and a half tonnes, and smaller in every dimension (and a lot smaller lengthways) than a Tallboy, and that there was no concern over aerial interception. You could have removed the top turret, taken a couple of guns out of the other turrets, and filled the rest of the bomb bay with a fuel tank. According to this:
https://www.atomicheritage.org/history/project-sil...
(and I've read it elsewhere)
The B-29 had to be extensively modified to get the bombs to fit anyway, and the reason the Lancaster wasn't used was because it wasn't American.
Also the Lancaster was slower and unpressurised - so could not fly very high. Part of the bomb drop strategy was to let the bomb go at high altitude and then turn around sharpish and get out of there as fast as possible. Wiki says the B-29 was flying at over 33,000 feet when it released the bomb.
The Lanc would not have been able to do that.
The Lanc would not have been able to do that.
Fascinating videos here:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuYBxpKIMwg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTHbrWSG-z4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuYBxpKIMwg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTHbrWSG-z4
davepoth said:
Possibly. Bear in mind that the Little Boy bomb was quite small - 4 and a half tonnes, and smaller in every dimension (and a lot smaller lengthways) than a Tallboy, and that there was no concern over aerial interception. You could have removed the top turret, taken a couple of guns out of the other turrets, and filled the rest of the bomb bay with a fuel tank.
According to this:
https://www.atomicheritage.org/history/project-sil...
(and I've read it elsewhere)
The B-29 had to be extensively modified to get the bombs to fit anyway, and the reason the Lancaster wasn't used was because it wasn't American.
Interesting to read that although the Lancaster wasn’t used after being considered, they did use its bomb release mechanisms after the previous design failed repeatedly in testing.According to this:
https://www.atomicheritage.org/history/project-sil...
(and I've read it elsewhere)
The B-29 had to be extensively modified to get the bombs to fit anyway, and the reason the Lancaster wasn't used was because it wasn't American.
I can quite understand why the US wanted to use a US aeroplane to drop the world's first atom bomb and (almost) end WW2. It was an American show.
The only consideration might be the time needed to do the conversion - for example if a B-29 took months longer to convert than a Lanc - but it would have caused a severe dent in US home and world chutzpah I think.
No doubt if it happened today, media and social media would be full of noisy outraged liberals screaming blue murder at the atrocity.
The only consideration might be the time needed to do the conversion - for example if a B-29 took months longer to convert than a Lanc - but it would have caused a severe dent in US home and world chutzpah I think.
No doubt if it happened today, media and social media would be full of noisy outraged liberals screaming blue murder at the atrocity.
Simpo Two said:
No doubt if it happened today, media and social media would be full of noisy outraged liberals screaming blue murder at the atrocity.
To be fair, I think a lot of people at the time, even in the circumstances, felt the same way. Not least a large proportion of the scientific community whose work went into developing it. They thought peace could be achieved by merely demonstrating the power of the weapon. Maybe they were right - we’ll never know.theboss said:
Simpo Two said:
No doubt if it happened today, media and social media would be full of noisy outraged liberals screaming blue murder at the atrocity.
To be fair, I think a lot of people at the time, even in the circumstances, felt the same way. Not least a large proportion of the scientific community whose work went into developing it. They thought peace could be achieved by merely demonstrating the power of the weapon. Maybe they were right - we’ll never know.Oppenheimer had second thoughts - but if he thought that the Japanese would suddenly quit if they saw some film of a big ball of smoke over the desert he was an idealist. If you bluff you have to be prepared to have it called.
Simpo Two said:
theboss said:
Simpo Two said:
No doubt if it happened today, media and social media would be full of noisy outraged liberals screaming blue murder at the atrocity.
To be fair, I think a lot of people at the time, even in the circumstances, felt the same way. Not least a large proportion of the scientific community whose work went into developing it. They thought peace could be achieved by merely demonstrating the power of the weapon. Maybe they were right - we’ll never know.Oppenheimer had second thoughts - but if he thought that the Japanese would suddenly quit if they saw some film of a big ball of smoke over the desert he was an idealist. If you bluff you have to be prepared to have it called.
Of course, they didn't have Facebook then, so were probably a little less vocal in their frothings.
Simpo Two said:
theboss said:
Simpo Two said:
No doubt if it happened today, media and social media would be full of noisy outraged liberals screaming blue murder at the atrocity.
To be fair, I think a lot of people at the time, even in the circumstances, felt the same way. Not least a large proportion of the scientific community whose work went into developing it. They thought peace could be achieved by merely demonstrating the power of the weapon. Maybe they were right - we’ll never know.Oppenheimer had second thoughts - but if he thought that the Japanese would suddenly quit if they saw some film of a big ball of smoke over the desert he was an idealist. If you bluff you have to be prepared to have it called.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb13ynu3Iac
Simpo Two said:
theboss said:
Simpo Two said:
No doubt if it happened today, media and social media would be full of noisy outraged liberals screaming blue murder at the atrocity.
To be fair, I think a lot of people at the time, even in the circumstances, felt the same way. Not least a large proportion of the scientific community whose work went into developing it. They thought peace could be achieved by merely demonstrating the power of the weapon. Maybe they were right - we’ll never know.Oppenheimer had second thoughts - but if he thought that the Japanese would suddenly quit if they saw some film of a big ball of smoke over the desert he was an idealist. If you bluff you have to be prepared to have it called.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb13ynu3Iac
Simpo Two said:
And the Pacific theatre was full of B29s. Where was the nearest Lancaster?
There would have been Lancasters there, had the war gone on any longer.Tiger Force was in the process of being shipped out there.
The Lancaster that now flies as part of the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight would actually have been among them.
Simpo Two said:
theboss said:
Simpo Two said:
No doubt if it happened today, media and social media would be full of noisy outraged liberals screaming blue murder at the atrocity.
To be fair, I think a lot of people at the time, even in the circumstances, felt the same way. Not least a large proportion of the scientific community whose work went into developing it. They thought peace could be achieved by merely demonstrating the power of the weapon. Maybe they were right - we’ll never know.Oppenheimer had second thoughts - but if he thought that the Japanese would suddenly quit if they saw some film of a big ball of smoke over the desert he was an idealist. If you bluff you have to be prepared to have it called.
theboss said:
To be fair, I think a lot of people at the time, even in the circumstances, felt the same way. Not least a large proportion of the scientific community whose work went into developing it. They thought peace could be achieved by merely demonstrating the power of the weapon. Maybe they were right - we’ll never know.
The mind is a strange thing, One persons mind achieving great things by splitting the atom, anothers by going lets build a nuke a kill a s
t tonne of people with it.Tony1963 said:
Ifs, buts, maybes....
All pointless really, once we decide that yes/no the Lancaster could/couldn't do the job. No point loitering on the what-ifs of something that happened 73 years ago!
But it is interesting to see how much better organised WW2 could have been if only PH had been available to advise.All pointless really, once we decide that yes/no the Lancaster could/couldn't do the job. No point loitering on the what-ifs of something that happened 73 years ago!
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