Hawker Typhoon
Discussion
I saw a presentation the other day from the group trying to 'restore' a Hawker Typhoon.
They already have an appropriate Napier Sabre engine, an unused one that appears to have sat around unused for 70 years, also they reckon about 1 1/2 engines worth of spares.
Most of the Typhoon will of course be new build but to the original drawings and incorporating as many original parts as possible. Plus a few adapted Tempest bits such as the rudder.
First flight is hoped to be 2024, estimated total cost £6,000,000.
https://hawkertyphoon.com/
They already have an appropriate Napier Sabre engine, an unused one that appears to have sat around unused for 70 years, also they reckon about 1 1/2 engines worth of spares.
Most of the Typhoon will of course be new build but to the original drawings and incorporating as many original parts as possible. Plus a few adapted Tempest bits such as the rudder.
First flight is hoped to be 2024, estimated total cost £6,000,000.
https://hawkertyphoon.com/
You might enjoy this book if a Typhoon is of interest:
Typhoon Pilot by Desmond Scott - very cheap on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/00995070...
Some hair raising encounters.
Typhoon Pilot by Desmond Scott - very cheap on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/00995070...
Some hair raising encounters.
Eric Mc said:
They brought their bits and pieces to this year's \Farnborough Air Show. It's an ambitious project. The sticking p[oint will be the engine as, even when they were new, Sabres were tricky beasts to manage and maintain.
They were obviously complicated, and early marks of the engine were very poor, but the last versions were much, much better and very powerful.I'd go out of my way to hear one, even just on a ground run!
julianm said:
You might enjoy this book if a Typhoon is of interest:
Typhoon Pilot by Desmond Scott - very cheap on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/00995070...
Some hair raising encounters.
I read that years ago, it's good.Typhoon Pilot by Desmond Scott - very cheap on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/00995070...
Some hair raising encounters.
Tony1963 said:
Eric Mc said:
They brought their bits and pieces to this year's \Farnborough Air Show. It's an ambitious project. The sticking p[oint will be the engine as, even when they were new, Sabres were tricky beasts to manage and maintain.
They were obviously complicated, and early marks of the engine were very poor, but the last versions were much, much better and very powerful.I'd go out of my way to hear one, even just on a ground run!
Eric Mc said:
It's an immensely complex engine - the cylinders are in an H pattern - with sleeve valves. There's nothing like it running today as far as I know.
Sabre animations >>>> http://www.hawkertempest.se/index.php/contribution...gareth_r said:
Sabre animations >>>> http://www.hawkertempest.se/index.php/contribution...
From that it seems to be basically 2 engines geared together.gareth_r said:
Sabre animations >>>> http://www.hawkertempest.se/index.php/contribution...
From that it seems to be basically 2 engines geared together.Yes, with the bonus complication that the ports in the sleeve are moved in and out of alignment with ports in the barrel the sleeve runs in.
The designer had two other "H" pattern engines, the Rapier and the Dagger.
The H design has the advantage of low frontal area, and small cylinders let you rev higher, which ultimately leads to more power as long as nothng breaks.
The designer had two other "H" pattern engines, the Rapier and the Dagger.
The H design has the advantage of low frontal area, and small cylinders let you rev higher, which ultimately leads to more power as long as nothng breaks.
Metallurgy and knowledge of the required tolerances has advanced quite considerably in the last 70-odd years, of course.
The BRM V16 has been made to run with at least moderate levels of reliability that it never had back in the day, and that engine (at 1.5 litres total capacity, centrifugally supercharged for 600bhp and revving to 12,000rpm) is built like a Swiss watch and is vastly more highly stressed compared to the Sabre.
The BRM V16 has been made to run with at least moderate levels of reliability that it never had back in the day, and that engine (at 1.5 litres total capacity, centrifugally supercharged for 600bhp and revving to 12,000rpm) is built like a Swiss watch and is vastly more highly stressed compared to the Sabre.
Tony1963 said:
I'll say it again: the Sabre was very reliable in its last versions, and incredibly powerful.
I should think that the Typhoon will have its engine built to the highest standards possible within the budget.
And have more stringent operating limits imposed on it than was the case in wartime no doubt. I should think that the Typhoon will have its engine built to the highest standards possible within the budget.
Equus said:
Metallurgy and knowledge of the required tolerances has advanced quite considerably in the last 70-odd years, of course.
I think it would almost certainly be difficult to change the specification of materials without some kind of re-certification being required. Not the case with the BRM engine.I recently made the airfix 1/72 of this. Turned out to be the best one I've done (but not a patch on Eric's creations) , very enjoyable build, if a little complex getting the rockets to fix under the wing.
Interesting doco on youtube about it (The Typhoon, not my airfix kit).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qexMo-2ZLos
Interesting doco on youtube about it (The Typhoon, not my airfix kit).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qexMo-2ZLos
Writhing said:
Wow! That looks amazingly complicated. I imagine the designer thought it would work in theory. Is the operation almost like a ported 2 stroke?
That topic came up at the talk I was at. The speaker referred to it twice as a two stroke, but was simply going by the valve operation.Someone in the audience asked
'But does it go suck squeeze bang blow?
'Yes' came the reply.
dr_gn said:
I think it would almost certainly be difficult to change the specification of materials without some kind of re-certification being required. Not the case with the BRM engine.
The last time I looked, the regs on warbirds were a lot more lenient than those on Hunters, airliners and Cessnas, for example. Seems like they may be reliant on the Kermit Weeks Tempest V project with the Sabre engine. He too has two complete engines with the aim to building the Tempest to airworthy condition, even if it never actually is allowed to fly. Maybe with him leading the way on an engine build they could at least learn from his build.
Hugely ambitious project, but certainly hope they succeed.
Hugely ambitious project, but certainly hope they succeed.
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