Any Buccaneers still flying?
Discussion
There's the 2 Thunder City ones, plus the one owned by Ian Pringle all down in Cape Town and still all for sale I believe, and which were the last 3 flying example anywhere, but they haven't flown since 2010 when TC ceased operations.
Obviously, there is also XX885 sitting in the hangar at Scampton that is essentially airworthy, and undergoes (or was) regular anti-det routine, in case HHA win a mil contract that requires the particular flight envelope of the Bucc.
Given one of those hasn't been forthcoming for the past lord knows how many years now, its seemingly unlikely that it will ever fly again now, a view that sadly it seems even HHA now accept from quotes from a couple of the team from last year.
Obviously, there is also XX885 sitting in the hangar at Scampton that is essentially airworthy, and undergoes (or was) regular anti-det routine, in case HHA win a mil contract that requires the particular flight envelope of the Bucc.
Given one of those hasn't been forthcoming for the past lord knows how many years now, its seemingly unlikely that it will ever fly again now, a view that sadly it seems even HHA now accept from quotes from a couple of the team from last year.
aeropilot said:
There's the 2 Thunder City ones, plus the one owned by Ian Pringle all down in Cape Town and still all for sale I believe, and which were the last 3 flying example anywhere, but they haven't flown since 2010 when TC ceased operations.
Obviously, there is also XX885 sitting in the hangar at Scampton that is essentially airworthy, and undergoes (or was) regular anti-det routine, in case HHA win a mil contract that requires the particular flight envelope of the Bucc.
Given one of those hasn't been forthcoming for the past lord knows how many years now, its seemingly unlikely that it will ever fly again now, a view that sadly it seems even HHA now accept from quotes from a couple of the team from last year.
Yeah I know a couple of the HHA guys. They do work on our Hunter every now and again. They occasionally borrow/swap parts from ours depending on what’s in the best condition. Obviously, there is also XX885 sitting in the hangar at Scampton that is essentially airworthy, and undergoes (or was) regular anti-det routine, in case HHA win a mil contract that requires the particular flight envelope of the Bucc.
Given one of those hasn't been forthcoming for the past lord knows how many years now, its seemingly unlikely that it will ever fly again now, a view that sadly it seems even HHA now accept from quotes from a couple of the team from last year.
I think the chances of a Buc flying again are higher than me winning the lottery.
dukeboy749r said:
Forgive the question, but what with older jets flying, what is it with 'some' more modern jets not being able to do so?
Vulcan, Buccaneer, Lightening?
Is it raw cost? Availability of spares? Why are some airframes still seemingly capable, whilst others aren't?
None of the above, its the CAA criteria for allowing what are classified in the 'complex' category, and thus CAA require DA support, which with the sole exception of the Vulcan in recent years, will never be forthcoming, and the withdrawing of that DA support, particular in respect of RR and the engines meant it's now firmly on the ground along with every other 'complex' category ex-mil type that would be operated on a Permit to Fly basis.Vulcan, Buccaneer, Lightening?
Is it raw cost? Availability of spares? Why are some airframes still seemingly capable, whilst others aren't?
aeropilot said:
None of the above, its the CAA criteria for allowing what are classified in the 'complex' category, and thus CAA require DA support, which with the sole exception of the Vulcan in recent years, will never be forthcoming, and the withdrawing of that DA support, particular in respect of RR and the engines meant it's now firmly on the ground along with every other 'complex' category ex-mil type that would be operated on a Permit to Fly basis.
There also seems to be a difference between a semi military arrangement like HHA and pure civilian operation.At least one of the Thunder City Buccs was test flown in the UK before being sent out to SA, but the CAA then put a stop to that. Yet HHA reckon they could fly their Buccaneer if required. Not to mention their SU22 or their rumoured Phantom.
Dr Jekyll said:
aeropilot said:
None of the above, its the CAA criteria for allowing what are classified in the 'complex' category, and thus CAA require DA support, which with the sole exception of the Vulcan in recent years, will never be forthcoming, and the withdrawing of that DA support, particular in respect of RR and the engines meant it's now firmly on the ground along with every other 'complex' category ex-mil type that would be operated on a Permit to Fly basis.
There also seems to be a difference between a semi military arrangement like HHA and pure civilian operation.Commercial Operation of Military Aircraft.
This is where a civilian owned aircraft is operated on a military/Govt contract and a military serial (not a G-**** reg etc)
To all intents and purposes it's a military aircraft being operated.
Dr Jekyll said:
At least one of the Thunder City Buccs was test flown in the UK before being sent out to SA, but the CAA then put a stop to that. Yet HHA reckon they could fly their Buccaneer if required. Not to mention their SU22 or their rumoured Phantom.
All 3 of the ex-RAE Buccs were test flown in UK, and then flown out of the UK on ferry flights down to SA.Yes, HHA have maintained the Bucc, Su-22 and the ex-GAF F-4 in a state that means they are effectively airworthy, should a MOD contract be won that requires the flight envelope characteristics of any of those aircraft.
Sadly, the view now is that such a contract is not going to materialise, and the chances of seeing either of those 3 x aircraft take-off from Scampton at any point in the future is fast receding.
There is just no business case to have these complex, expensive toys flying again. They were extremely expensive to run in the 1970s and 80s, and wouldn't be any cheaper now. And, just like the Vulcan, if they did make it into the air they'd be flown very gently to preserve the airframes, so any display would be plain boring. Nostalgic, but boring.
Even when fast jets are brand new they're a challenge to keep in the air. With little to no manufacturer support for their appetite for spares and engineering, it's a scary prospect.
Bloodhound SSC needs £25m. A serviceable Bucc could eat that by teatime tomorrow.
Even when fast jets are brand new they're a challenge to keep in the air. With little to no manufacturer support for their appetite for spares and engineering, it's a scary prospect.
Bloodhound SSC needs £25m. A serviceable Bucc could eat that by teatime tomorrow.
magpie215 said:
Where as in America they would just stick these old Mil jets on the experimental register and keep on flying them.
Here in the U.K....CAA says no.
Sadly there are many examples which prove the CAA are right. The SA lightning, and its lack of proper maintenance being one.Here in the U.K....CAA says no.
aeropilot said:
COMA.
Commercial Operation of Military Aircraft.
This is where a civilian owned aircraft is operated on a military/Govt contract and a military serial (not a G-**** reg etc)
To all intents and purposes it's a military aircraft being operated.
How much of that goes on these days? Presumably QinetiQ are still flying a few aircraft, and Martin Baker still have their Meteors, but given the tendency to try and contract as much stuff out as possible these days is stuff like training done by civilian contractors now?Commercial Operation of Military Aircraft.
This is where a civilian owned aircraft is operated on a military/Govt contract and a military serial (not a G-**** reg etc)
To all intents and purposes it's a military aircraft being operated.
Coupled with the maintainance issues and lack of Design Authority support, fast jets of the post Hunter era pre Tornado era were notorious for 'biting' people - you only have to look at how many Jaguars/Harriers/F4s/Lightnings that we lost, and that was with well qualified Service pilots.
That level of experience is gradually diminishing with age and the fact is that there are far fewer experience FJ pilots around than there were 20 years ago.
Factor in that we are now in the post Shoreham world and the chances of any of those generation FJ flying today outside of the Military are about the square root of F all.
That level of experience is gradually diminishing with age and the fact is that there are far fewer experience FJ pilots around than there were 20 years ago.
Factor in that we are now in the post Shoreham world and the chances of any of those generation FJ flying today outside of the Military are about the square root of F all.
RizzoTheRat said:
aeropilot said:
COMA.
Commercial Operation of Military Aircraft.
This is where a civilian owned aircraft is operated on a military/Govt contract and a military serial (not a G-**** reg etc)
To all intents and purposes it's a military aircraft being operated.
How much of that goes on these days? Presumably QinetiQ are still flying a few aircraft, and Martin Baker still have their Meteors, but given the tendency to try and contract as much stuff out as possible these days is stuff like training done by civilian contractors now?Commercial Operation of Military Aircraft.
This is where a civilian owned aircraft is operated on a military/Govt contract and a military serial (not a G-**** reg etc)
To all intents and purposes it's a military aircraft being operated.
Yes, all UK mil basic flying training to advanced now being run by a civilian contractor
RizzoTheRat said:
aeropilot said:
COMA.
Commercial Operation of Military Aircraft.
This is where a civilian owned aircraft is operated on a military/Govt contract and a military serial (not a G-**** reg etc)
To all intents and purposes it's a military aircraft being operated.
How much of that goes on these days? Presumably QinetiQ are still flying a few aircraft, and Martin Baker still have their Meteors, but given the tendency to try and contract as much stuff out as possible these days is stuff like training done by civilian contractors now?Commercial Operation of Military Aircraft.
This is where a civilian owned aircraft is operated on a military/Govt contract and a military serial (not a G-**** reg etc)
To all intents and purposes it's a military aircraft being operated.
As for using civil contractors to train military pilots, this goes back to the 1930s
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