Aborted landing / go around
Discussion
Flying into Bham BHX yesterday in an Aer Lingus ATR 72. Bit gusty and the approach was a bit rocking and rolling, and at the point of touchdown (or a faction of a second before or after, hard to know) the pilot decided to knock it on the head and go around for another go.
Clearly no big deal, but I was wondering what the decision process is like - is it, f
k me! we are going to die!!! abort abort abort !!!!! (as many passengers thought), or is it, oh deary me, might spill the coffee, better go around again.
Is it usual to go around after the main gear has touched down?
Oops, landed by mistake in news, should be boats and planes, please can it be moved?
Clearly no big deal, but I was wondering what the decision process is like - is it, f
k me! we are going to die!!! abort abort abort !!!!! (as many passengers thought), or is it, oh deary me, might spill the coffee, better go around again.Is it usual to go around after the main gear has touched down?
Oops, landed by mistake in news, should be boats and planes, please can it be moved?
That is the only way to ensure the mods are made aware. Ayahuasca said:
Flying into Bham BHX yesterday in an Aer Lingus ATR 72. Bit gusty and the approach was a bit rocking and rolling, and at the point of touchdown (or a faction of a second before or after, hard to know) the pilot decided to knock it on the head and go around for another go.
Clearly no big deal, but I was wondering what the decision process is like - is it, fk me! we are going to die!!! abort abort abort !!!!! (as many passengers thought), or is it, oh deary me, might spill the coffee, better go around again.
Is it usual to go around after the main gear has touched down?
I've had 7 go arounds & only one of them had the wheels touch down. (For added excitement I had 3 of those go arounds in a single attempt at landing, made it 4th time lucky(Clearly no big deal, but I was wondering what the decision process is like - is it, f
k me! we are going to die!!! abort abort abort !!!!! (as many passengers thought), or is it, oh deary me, might spill the coffee, better go around again.Is it usual to go around after the main gear has touched down?
(I am by no means an expert or a pilot but my understanding is..)
When starting their approach the pilots almost always have the autopilot configured for the missed approach heading and altitude.
In normal weather it was unusual for go arounds. Usually a runway incursion or the previous landing has not cleared etc so they still keep the missed approach set up.
If its very windy or very heavy fog it can literally be every other aircraft. At that stage the airport might close though!
Normally the pilots go around about 20-30 seconds from touch down, sometimes before sometimes after. They have a decision marker on the approach called "minimums" they can then call out "landing" or "continue" or "going around".
After this point its really just a safety thing as they are going to have a go at the landing and for example they may have touched down beyond the landing zone and might not have space to stop or perhaps they are using full rudder and the nose is still pointing away from the centre line. There are literally hundreds of reasons though.
If the aircraft has just touched, bounced or is about to touch pilots can use a "TOGA 10" routine which is to raise the nose to 10 degrees and select TOGA engine setting. This helps prevent the tail hitting the runway and ensures safe climb out although I think every airline has their own procedure. The minimum approach speeds used will allow for this pitch up and then time for the engines to produce some climb thrust / TOGA thrust. They then turn the AP back on when the aircraft is stable and declare going around to ATC. This is why pilots fly the approach within very strict envelopes and if the aircraft is unable to stay within the safe limits they just abort and try again as those limits are set around the later things they might have to do, such as going around.
When starting their approach the pilots almost always have the autopilot configured for the missed approach heading and altitude.
In normal weather it was unusual for go arounds. Usually a runway incursion or the previous landing has not cleared etc so they still keep the missed approach set up.
If its very windy or very heavy fog it can literally be every other aircraft. At that stage the airport might close though!
Normally the pilots go around about 20-30 seconds from touch down, sometimes before sometimes after. They have a decision marker on the approach called "minimums" they can then call out "landing" or "continue" or "going around".
After this point its really just a safety thing as they are going to have a go at the landing and for example they may have touched down beyond the landing zone and might not have space to stop or perhaps they are using full rudder and the nose is still pointing away from the centre line. There are literally hundreds of reasons though.
If the aircraft has just touched, bounced or is about to touch pilots can use a "TOGA 10" routine which is to raise the nose to 10 degrees and select TOGA engine setting. This helps prevent the tail hitting the runway and ensures safe climb out although I think every airline has their own procedure. The minimum approach speeds used will allow for this pitch up and then time for the engines to produce some climb thrust / TOGA thrust. They then turn the AP back on when the aircraft is stable and declare going around to ATC. This is why pilots fly the approach within very strict envelopes and if the aircraft is unable to stay within the safe limits they just abort and try again as those limits are set around the later things they might have to do, such as going around.
I quite like the ATR as a passenger and the power always feels more instant...
The other reason for a late go-around is a windshear alert. It’s orobbaby easier to tell from the passenger cabin as the procedure is different in that the configuration is left alone (flaps and gear) until the windshear alert is gone and the plane well away from the ground. Otherwise normally go-around flaps would normally be selected and gear up after positive climb verified.
The other reason for a late go-around is a windshear alert. It’s orobbaby easier to tell from the passenger cabin as the procedure is different in that the configuration is left alone (flaps and gear) until the windshear alert is gone and the plane well away from the ground. Otherwise normally go-around flaps would normally be selected and gear up after positive climb verified.
Not a go around exactly, but bhx in sight and pilot takes decision to return to schipol, due to a warning light. Which really freaked Mrs PR, a nervous flyer. (schipol runway clear and fire appliances on standby didn't help matters)
Disembarked, pilot informed us all was OK after all, and we could have another go. Mrs PR refused to reboard, came home, came home from Amsterdam by train.
Disembarked, pilot informed us all was OK after all, and we could have another go. Mrs PR refused to reboard, came home, came home from Amsterdam by train.
Had it once in thick fog.
The pilot did explain clearly at the 1 mile point he would decide whether he could see enough to land or not. Then as we hit the point in question he decided he could not land it and punched full power which made quite a bang. Despite being clearly warned well in advance it may be aborted due to fog, we still had half the plane scream!! It was great fun.
Though I have flown military where they don't worry as much about a nice smooth take off so now and again you just got full power then a nice hard punch as it launches down the runway.....
The pilot did explain clearly at the 1 mile point he would decide whether he could see enough to land or not. Then as we hit the point in question he decided he could not land it and punched full power which made quite a bang. Despite being clearly warned well in advance it may be aborted due to fog, we still had half the plane scream!! It was great fun.
Though I have flown military where they don't worry as much about a nice smooth take off so now and again you just got full power then a nice hard punch as it launches down the runway.....
Bandit110 said:
GT03ROB said:
I've had 7 go arounds & only one of them had the wheels touch down. (For added excitement I had 3 of those go arounds in a single attempt at landing, made it 4th time lucky(
Super cool to hear from a Pilot :-) can you say who you fly for or what you fly?But to fill in details ......
..1st into Dubai in clearly way off track...appeared tp get through fog pilot realised he was off track aborted & went to Abu Dhabi... Tarom... Tupolev something or other
....2nd into Luxor sat in row 1 can hear all sorts of alarms going off in cockpit aborted came round landed on 2nd attempt no problems ... EgyptAir Airbus of sorts...
......3rd into Luton plane hadn't cleared runway again aborted & landed 2nd time round .....Easyjet
........4th / 5th / 6th into Riyadh windshear.... on each approach you could tell was all wrong, finally approached from opposite direction got down no probs. Took off again 45 mins later no probs. BMI.
..........7th into Amsterdam. windy conditions wheels touched down we took off again... landed on 2nd attempt ... AirAstana A321
Only ever happened once to me but it was quite memorable. Coming into Split airport in 1990 on a rickety old Tupolev TU 134. Aviogenex was the airline I believe. Hit very poor weather on approach - got very close to touching down, within metres, before we screamed off again. Remember feeling pretty scared as the hilltops seemed a bit too close through the storm cloud!
Edited by mcelliott on Sunday 10th March 19:23
The TOGA 10 method is an Airbus-ism, so doesn't quite apply to the ATR.
Spool up times from approach power settings to go-around power are considerably smaller on turboprops, compared to jet engines, so the power is more or less instant, combined with a finer setting on the blade angles, makes them much more responsive.
On top of this, there's no ground spoilers on the ATR for dumping lift on landing, as they more or less stop when you touchdown anyway!
Unusual to touchdown on a go-around, but it would entirely depend at what point the go-around was initiated, and as mentioned before, there can be all manner of reasons for go-around in the first place.
It's certainly not an unusual manoeuvre - essentially a take-off that's performed when already airborne, and something practiced regularly on recurrent simulator checks. . .
The high mounted wing on the ATR's (and Flybe Q400's for example) allow them to have much higher crosswind limits, which can be a blessing and a curse. I remember one day years back, we were the only aircraft flying on a howling day in and out of London City and Leeds Bradford. . . anyone who's operated into Leeds will know it's hard work even on a nice day!
Spool up times from approach power settings to go-around power are considerably smaller on turboprops, compared to jet engines, so the power is more or less instant, combined with a finer setting on the blade angles, makes them much more responsive.
On top of this, there's no ground spoilers on the ATR for dumping lift on landing, as they more or less stop when you touchdown anyway!
Unusual to touchdown on a go-around, but it would entirely depend at what point the go-around was initiated, and as mentioned before, there can be all manner of reasons for go-around in the first place.
It's certainly not an unusual manoeuvre - essentially a take-off that's performed when already airborne, and something practiced regularly on recurrent simulator checks. . .
The high mounted wing on the ATR's (and Flybe Q400's for example) allow them to have much higher crosswind limits, which can be a blessing and a curse. I remember one day years back, we were the only aircraft flying on a howling day in and out of London City and Leeds Bradford. . . anyone who's operated into Leeds will know it's hard work even on a nice day!
5150 said:
The high mounted wing on the ATR's (and Flybe Q400's for example) allow them to have much higher crosswind limits, which can be a blessing and a curse. I remember one day years back, we were the only aircraft flying on a howling day in and out of London City and Leeds Bradford. . . anyone who's operated into Leeds will know it's hard work even on a nice day!
Dash 8s are great little thingsDash 8's are indeed hardy buggers but the wing position has nothing to do with the crosswind limit. In fact the Dash 400's limit is lower than most of the bigger jets (A320, 737, 757, A320) to name but a few. However with loads of instant power and no real restriction on bank angles close to the ground it's a joy to handle in a stiff breeze.
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