First boat advice!
Discussion
Hello all,
I'm looking to get into sailing as a family activity - nothing too adventurous, just some nice day trips learning to handle a boat on a Scottish Loch. The plan is to get a mooring there.
There are two boats which have caught my eye, both around £3000, which from what I have read are designed to be easy to sail, offer decent accommodation, and look like they would fit the bill for family use. I'm also quite keen to have an outboard motor rather than an inboard, I've seen the bills a colleague had to get a Mercruiser engine fettled and I could do without that hassle.
As a newbie I'd really value some opinions from those 'in the know' about which (or neither) of these boats would be a good buy.
The first one is a Folksong 25, it looks like it has had a lot of work done in 2018 to get it to a good standard, and I like the Folkboat lines. The colours are a bit, erm, 'Scandinavian' (I suspect you transport it as a flatpack and it comes with meatballs and Dime bars) but it could do the trick nicely.
https://yachts.apolloduck.com/boat/folksong-25/607...
The second is an Etap 22, which looks a bit broader and like it may be a bit more spacious. From reading the advert I suspect it is a bit less 'fettled' than the Folksong, but I've read a lot of good things about the model, it looks more convenient as it is a trailer sailer (I plan to get a mooring for it but being able to tow it places myself gives some extra flexibility if I want to relocate), and from the photos the interior looks to have a bit more space. I also like the safety rails right the way round the perimeter, we could fit baby netting to those quite easily for a bit of added safety.
https://www.gumtree.com/p/boats-kayaks-jet-skis/et...
Any thoughts/suggestions much appreciated!
I'm looking to get into sailing as a family activity - nothing too adventurous, just some nice day trips learning to handle a boat on a Scottish Loch. The plan is to get a mooring there.
There are two boats which have caught my eye, both around £3000, which from what I have read are designed to be easy to sail, offer decent accommodation, and look like they would fit the bill for family use. I'm also quite keen to have an outboard motor rather than an inboard, I've seen the bills a colleague had to get a Mercruiser engine fettled and I could do without that hassle.
As a newbie I'd really value some opinions from those 'in the know' about which (or neither) of these boats would be a good buy.
The first one is a Folksong 25, it looks like it has had a lot of work done in 2018 to get it to a good standard, and I like the Folkboat lines. The colours are a bit, erm, 'Scandinavian' (I suspect you transport it as a flatpack and it comes with meatballs and Dime bars) but it could do the trick nicely.
https://yachts.apolloduck.com/boat/folksong-25/607...
The second is an Etap 22, which looks a bit broader and like it may be a bit more spacious. From reading the advert I suspect it is a bit less 'fettled' than the Folksong, but I've read a lot of good things about the model, it looks more convenient as it is a trailer sailer (I plan to get a mooring for it but being able to tow it places myself gives some extra flexibility if I want to relocate), and from the photos the interior looks to have a bit more space. I also like the safety rails right the way round the perimeter, we could fit baby netting to those quite easily for a bit of added safety.
https://www.gumtree.com/p/boats-kayaks-jet-skis/et...
Any thoughts/suggestions much appreciated!
Edited by fizmo100 on Sunday 23 June 09:43
you don't say what your sailing experience is?
Also, a scottish loch could mean many things. Are you after a good seaworthy boat or one that will let you potter around shallower, more sheltered, areas? Do you want it to keep you cosy and dry or do you enjoy waves breaking into the cockpit?
My understanding is that the folkboat will go anywhere but will not keep you dry and is not the easiest boat to manoeuvre backwards. I don't know that derivative but most folkboats have restricted headroom below.
I don't know them but would expect the etap to be a bit the opposite - generally more dry in the cockpit but more uncomfortable in a sea and less performance but easier to manoeuvre. Also more space below for the size of boat.
That folkboat does look very basic below and the colour is definitely a personal thing, I am not sure I could live with it.....
EDIT: I should add that whatever you get, inspect it very carefully as sorting issues could easily cost more that the boat is worth (even ignoring engines). Especially at that age/cost end of the market.
Also, a scottish loch could mean many things. Are you after a good seaworthy boat or one that will let you potter around shallower, more sheltered, areas? Do you want it to keep you cosy and dry or do you enjoy waves breaking into the cockpit?
My understanding is that the folkboat will go anywhere but will not keep you dry and is not the easiest boat to manoeuvre backwards. I don't know that derivative but most folkboats have restricted headroom below.
I don't know them but would expect the etap to be a bit the opposite - generally more dry in the cockpit but more uncomfortable in a sea and less performance but easier to manoeuvre. Also more space below for the size of boat.
That folkboat does look very basic below and the colour is definitely a personal thing, I am not sure I could live with it.....
EDIT: I should add that whatever you get, inspect it very carefully as sorting issues could easily cost more that the boat is worth (even ignoring engines). Especially at that age/cost end of the market.
Edited by brman on Sunday 23 June 11:08
Thanks for the reply. I'm at the pottering end of the spectrum - limited sailing experience but I enjoyed it enough that I know I will make good use of a boat. I also enjoy pottering away with maintenance jobs, so some sprucing up doesn't phase me. I'm looking at Loch Ken, it's 3 hours from home, big enough to keep us entertained for a long time without getting 'samey', it has a good campsite, and the mooring fees seem very reasonable.
The plan is to have family camping holidays up there with the boat as an added element of fun, ultimately the kids will decide how much it features in the holiday based on whether or not they take to it (I suspect they will). I will also go up for a days on my own or with one of the nippers if they are keen, and probably do some overnight stays - at least I'll try it once, if it's a miserable experience I'll pack a tent in future!
From what you say, the Etap is closer to what I am looking for in a boat for sure. Relaxing days rather than adrenaline fuelled heroics are the name of the game (for now)!
The plan is to have family camping holidays up there with the boat as an added element of fun, ultimately the kids will decide how much it features in the holiday based on whether or not they take to it (I suspect they will). I will also go up for a days on my own or with one of the nippers if they are keen, and probably do some overnight stays - at least I'll try it once, if it's a miserable experience I'll pack a tent in future!
From what you say, the Etap is closer to what I am looking for in a boat for sure. Relaxing days rather than adrenaline fuelled heroics are the name of the game (for now)!
Good luck then 
btw, did you mention trailer sailing? Again, I don't know the Etap but some "trailer sailors" can take quite a while to rig up so, while the trailer is useful end of season etc, it is not really something you want to do on a regular basis.
On the other hand, being able to take it home to fettle over the winter does have an appeal. Having to do everything a few hours from home is a right pain at times!
btw. In case you have not already found it....
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?325089-ET...
btw, did you mention trailer sailing? Again, I don't know the Etap but some "trailer sailors" can take quite a while to rig up so, while the trailer is useful end of season etc, it is not really something you want to do on a regular basis.
On the other hand, being able to take it home to fettle over the winter does have an appeal. Having to do everything a few hours from home is a right pain at times!
btw. In case you have not already found it....
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?325089-ET...
Great link, I've already had a browse through it and it seems like the Etap is the best suited to what we want to do.
The trailer sailer aspect of the Etap is attractive, I'm planning on having it on a long-term mooring but being able to move it myself with only minor faff is a definite plus, whether that's to take it to a yard for maintenance or just to move it to a new location if we want to explore somewhere else. The family car is a Jeep Commander, so we're well set up for towing already.
Thanks again!
The trailer sailer aspect of the Etap is attractive, I'm planning on having it on a long-term mooring but being able to move it myself with only minor faff is a definite plus, whether that's to take it to a yard for maintenance or just to move it to a new location if we want to explore somewhere else. The family car is a Jeep Commander, so we're well set up for towing already.
Thanks again!
Have you discounted dayboats?
I worked my way up to a 30' Hunter Legend from messing about mostly in dayboats as a youngster.
Great fun as kids sailing about in the shallows, able to just go ashore easily onto any beach you fancied for a walk or a picnic - deal for learning, and lot more room outside of any cabin which is where you want to spent most of your time. Also easier to launch and recover meaning you have greater flexibility to sail in inshore waters, lake district etc.
I worked my way up to a 30' Hunter Legend from messing about mostly in dayboats as a youngster.
Great fun as kids sailing about in the shallows, able to just go ashore easily onto any beach you fancied for a walk or a picnic - deal for learning, and lot more room outside of any cabin which is where you want to spent most of your time. Also easier to launch and recover meaning you have greater flexibility to sail in inshore waters, lake district etc.
AdeTuono said:
From personal experience, and that of many others, there are two good days when you own a boat: the day you buy it, and the day you sell it.
For some balance, my personal experience is the opposite!What I have learnt is that you should buy the best boat you can afford.
Saving a few hundred or thousand pounds on day 1 costs you multiples of that down the road.
AdeTuono said:
From personal experience, and that of many others, there are two good days when you own a boat: the day you buy it, and the day you sell it.
Hahaha what this guy said is so true. I've had a number of boats ( sailing and power) as I live on the seafront in Sussex. Nothing burns money like a boat. My advice to you is to either rent one, then decide if you really do want a boat, or make friends with some who owns one.
Moorining fees, lowering fees, boat maintenance fees, insurance fees, engine servicing fees, petrol fees, trailer bearing constantly collapsing fees..... list goes on :-)
SBK
You will enjoy Loch Ken. We have had many weekends camping there albeit with a motor boat.
But great to wake up next to the loch and see your boat moored next to you ready to go. We hardly see anyone even on apparently busy days.
Watch your keel around the holiday park, it's rather shallow!
But great to wake up next to the loch and see your boat moored next to you ready to go. We hardly see anyone even on apparently busy days.
Watch your keel around the holiday park, it's rather shallow!
Maybe if there is gas on board or wish to take it on inland waterways and require a Boat Safety Certificate?
Even then I don't remember the costs been prohibitive for my dad's river cruiser. He does a lot of jobs himself and he keeps the costs down to a sensible level.
However if you use boatyard services for everything, then I imagine costs could get silly?
Even then I don't remember the costs been prohibitive for my dad's river cruiser. He does a lot of jobs himself and he keeps the costs down to a sensible level.
However if you use boatyard services for everything, then I imagine costs could get silly?
sbk1972 said:
AdeTuono said:
From personal experience, and that of many others, there are two good days when you own a boat: the day you buy it, and the day you sell it.
Hahaha what this guy said is so true. I've had a number of boats ( sailing and power) as I live on the seafront in Sussex. Nothing burns money like a boat. My advice to you is to either rent one, then decide if you really do want a boat, or make friends with some who owns one.
Moorining fees, lowering fees, boat maintenance fees, insurance fees, engine servicing fees, petrol fees, trailer bearing constantly collapsing fees..... list goes on :-)
SBK
I've had countless trailer boats and towed them all over the country, bearing failure is pretty rare but if you swap em' out every 24 month you'll be right (or fit one of the US designed oil cups such as 'neverlube' system').
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