Are surface warships a thing of the past?
Discussion
In the second world war the Battleship was a feared weapon, but with the sinking of the Bismarck in 1941, disabled by an ancient Fairy Swordfish after only being at sea a few days it proved they were not invincible.
With the introduction of laser guided cruise missiles and smart torpedoes which can be operated from thousands of miles away, and virtually silent nuclear powered submarines surely their days are numbered.
We have spent billions on a couple of new state of the art Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers, which are fantastic, but very vulnerable to attack, with all these hi tech weapons.
Thoughts??
With the introduction of laser guided cruise missiles and smart torpedoes which can be operated from thousands of miles away, and virtually silent nuclear powered submarines surely their days are numbered.
We have spent billions on a couple of new state of the art Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers, which are fantastic, but very vulnerable to attack, with all these hi tech weapons.
Thoughts??
No because the scenario you describe is extremely rare. Most conflicts are asymmetric so the baddies don't have similar state of the art weapons.
Carriers etc. offer huge capability in asymmetric situations. But yes, a state of the art sub would likely blow it to bits. But in this situation we're all f
ked anyway so it doesn't really matter.
Carriers etc. offer huge capability in asymmetric situations. But yes, a state of the art sub would likely blow it to bits. But in this situation we're all f
ked anyway so it doesn't really matter. The answer is no as warships perform a huge variety of roles from classic sea going warfare (sub hunting, ship-to-ship warfare, air defence, naval gunfire support for troops, missile strikes etc) to patrols (I.e. drug patrols) through to disaster relief.
In their war roles, they contain some of the most sophisticated weapons systems and can even fire at satellites.
They also have a vital role in protecting the carrier strike group which allows countries to project power outside of its own region.
In short they are one of the most versatile military units.
In their war roles, they contain some of the most sophisticated weapons systems and can even fire at satellites.
They also have a vital role in protecting the carrier strike group which allows countries to project power outside of its own region.
In short they are one of the most versatile military units.
take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:
No because the scenario you describe is extremely rare. Most conflicts are asymmetric so the baddies don't have similar state of the art weapons.
Carriers etc. offer huge capability in asymmetric situations. But yes, a state of the art sub would likely blow it to bits. But in this situation we're all fked anyway so it doesn't really matter.
but with the current rate of advance of technology giving these baddies access to more advanced weaponry able to surprise and overcome traditional imbalances between countries that implement foreign policies and countries/insurgents unable to effectively counter it - for example the Saudi oilfields attack - is there an approaching point at which the cumbersome carrier groups will become too vulnerable?Carriers etc. offer huge capability in asymmetric situations. But yes, a state of the art sub would likely blow it to bits. But in this situation we're all f
ked anyway so it doesn't really matter. Teddy Lop said:
take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:
No because the scenario you describe is extremely rare. Most conflicts are asymmetric so the baddies don't have similar state of the art weapons.
Carriers etc. offer huge capability in asymmetric situations. But yes, a state of the art sub would likely blow it to bits. But in this situation we're all fked anyway so it doesn't really matter.
but with the current rate of advance of technology giving these baddies access to more advanced weaponry able to surprise and overcome traditional imbalances between countries that implement foreign policies and countries/insurgents unable to effectively counter it - for example the Saudi oilfields attack - is there an approaching point at which the cumbersome carrier groups will become too vulnerable?Carriers etc. offer huge capability in asymmetric situations. But yes, a state of the art sub would likely blow it to bits. But in this situation we're all f
ked anyway so it doesn't really matter. Imagine a near term future... A container ship drops a couple of hundred fully autonomous sub-sea drones in gulf... Sits back and watches the carnage.
The only real blocker to this being practical at the moment is the lack of a suitable air independent propulsion system, I. E. Battery tech isn't there yet.
As per the IRA quote... Only have to be lucky once, you have to be lucky every time.
take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:
The world's navys are terrified of swarm attacks. Lots of money being spent on how to counter at the moment.
Imagine a near term future... A container ship drops a couple of hundred fully autonomous sub-sea drones in gulf... Sits back and watches the carnage.
The only real blocker to this being practical at the moment is the lack of a suitable air independent propulsion system, I. E. Battery tech isn't there yet.
As per the IRA quote... Only have to be lucky once, you have to be lucky every time.
that makes me think of the movie "screamers"Imagine a near term future... A container ship drops a couple of hundred fully autonomous sub-sea drones in gulf... Sits back and watches the carnage.
The only real blocker to this being practical at the moment is the lack of a suitable air independent propulsion system, I. E. Battery tech isn't there yet.
As per the IRA quote... Only have to be lucky once, you have to be lucky every time.
Starfighter said:
I think there was also a French submarine that carried a floatplane and landing craft.
dr_gn said:
Starfighter said:
I think there was also a French submarine that carried a floatplane and landing craft.If you wanted a sub with aerial attack or observational capability today then you'd use drones, maybe even missile tube launched, this probably already exists? Drones can also be much smaller and stealthier which also fits a subs MO.
Scobblelotcher said:
The answer is no as warships perform a huge variety of roles from classic sea going warfare (sub hunting, ship-to-ship warfare, air defence, naval gunfire support for troops, missile strikes etc) to patrols (I.e. drug patrols) through to disaster relief.
In their war roles, they contain some of the most sophisticated weapons systems and can even fire at satellites.
They also have a vital role in protecting the carrier strike group which allows countries to project power outside of its own region.
In short they are one of the most versatile military units.
In their war roles, they contain some of the most sophisticated weapons systems and can even fire at satellites.In their war roles, they contain some of the most sophisticated weapons systems and can even fire at satellites.
They also have a vital role in protecting the carrier strike group which allows countries to project power outside of its own region.
In short they are one of the most versatile military units.
Could one please explain what weapons they use for that ?
ApOrbital said:
Scobblelotcher said:
The answer is no as warships perform a huge variety of roles from classic sea going warfare (sub hunting, ship-to-ship warfare, air defence, naval gunfire support for troops, missile strikes etc) to patrols (I.e. drug patrols) through to disaster relief.
In their war roles, they contain some of the most sophisticated weapons systems and can even fire at satellites.
They also have a vital role in protecting the carrier strike group which allows countries to project power outside of its own region.
In short they are one of the most versatile military units.
In their war roles, they contain some of the most sophisticated weapons systems and can even fire at satellites.In their war roles, they contain some of the most sophisticated weapons systems and can even fire at satellites.
They also have a vital role in protecting the carrier strike group which allows countries to project power outside of its own region.
In short they are one of the most versatile military units.
Could one please explain what weapons they use for that ?
Teddy Lop said:
dr_gn said:
Starfighter said:
I think there was also a French submarine that carried a floatplane and landing craft.If you wanted a sub with aerial attack or observational capability today then you'd use drones, maybe even missile tube launched, this probably already exists? Drones can also be much smaller and stealthier which also fits a subs MO.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_M2
Edited by Jim1064 on Saturday 5th October 19:10
Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff