Bentley aero-engine
Discussion
Watching a rather bad film 'The Red Baron' I heard mention of a Fokker with a Bentley engine in it.
I can't find if that's true, but I did come across this page which some might find interesting: http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/projects/engines/be...
I can't find if that's true, but I did come across this page which some might find interesting: http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/projects/engines/be...
My memory could be playing tricks on me, but I seem to recall the story of a Bentley engine being fitted to a Fokker DR.1 was recounted in Charles River Editors' Richthofen biography.
It would have made sense as the Oberursel rotary normally fitted to the type was one of its main shortcomings, whereas the Bentley was regarded as the best performing of the engine types fitted to its nemesis, the Camel.
It would have made sense as the Oberursel rotary normally fitted to the type was one of its main shortcomings, whereas the Bentley was regarded as the best performing of the engine types fitted to its nemesis, the Camel.
Eric Mc said:
Which "Red Baron" film was it? There are at least two.
This one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Red_Baron_(2008_... - essentially a work of fiction.The angle was that Voss's Fokker had a Bentley fitted from a captured British aeroplane, so when reports came in of such a thing crashed Richthofen knew his friend was dead. Whereupon he cried a lot. Aerial scenes were all computer-game CGi with close-ups of actors grimacing over their unfeasibly-slow-revving engines. I think Richthofen shot Brown down twice. Really, don't watch this film!
Simpo Two said:
Eric Mc said:
Which "Red Baron" film was it? There are at least two.
This one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Red_Baron_(2008_... - essentially a work of fiction.The angle was that Voss's Fokker had a Bentley fitted from a captured British aeroplane, so when reports came in of such a thing crashed Richthofen knew his friend was dead. Whereupon he cried a lot. Aerial scenes were all computer-game CGi with close-ups of actors grimacing over their unfeasibly-slow-revving engines. I think Richthofen shot Brown down twice. Really, don't watch this film!
Voss supposedly did have the engine on his Triplane (a F.1 not a Dr.1) changed from the Oberursel to a French Le Rhone rotary as there were issues with the early Oberursel engines, which were in fact just a clone of the Le Rhone anyway, so wouldn't have been an engineering challenge to the fitters.
Its probably generally not known that one of Richthofen's Dr.1 Triplanes that he used, and in fact used for 3 of his victories, survived intact to the end of WW1 and was then displayed in a museum in Berlin for over 20 years alongside one of Oswald Boelcke's Fokker D.III's until both being destroyed by an allied bombing raid in WW2.
aeropilot said:
Its probably generally not known that one of Richthofen's Dr.1 Triplanes that he used, and in fact used for 3 of his victories, survived intact to the end of WW1 and was then displayed in a museum in Berlin for over 20 years alongside one of Oswald Boelcke's Fokker D.III's until both being destroyed by an allied bombing raid in WW2.
A famous Dornier Wal met the same fate.CanAm said:
The Oberursel factory (in the town of Oberursel near Frankfurt surprisingly) is still going strong, though now it’s a Rolls-Royce plant. It’s claimed to be the oldest aircraft industry factory still in production.
Some small payback for the Germans taking over the rest of RR...!Simpo Two said:
I wonder if the Bentley engine was something that tipped Rolls-Royce into making aero-engines, after previously deciding not to?
There weren't really 'Bentley' aero-engines in the sense of a company called Bentley making them and Rolls-Royce began making the Eagle long before there was ever an engine with the Bentley name attached to it. W.O. Bentley was commissioned into the RNVR to do work for the Admiralty to research improvements to engine designs. W.O.'s pet project was the superiority of aluminium alloy pistons and at first he focussed on developing these for the Sunbeam Arab engine and then worked with Ernest Hives at Rolls-Royce to produce them for the Eagle.
He was then asked to come up with improvements to the French Clerget 9B being used in the Sopwith 11/2 Strutter, Triplane and Camel and then being license-built by Gwynnes. Bentley was seconded to the design office at Gwynnes and came up with several alterations after touring RFC and RNAS airfields in France to study the engines in service. His ideas became less modification and more wholescale redesigning and he fell in with the chief designer of Humber, Fred Burgess. Bentley had already crystalised the idea of a version of the Clerget but with aluminium alloy cylinders with iron liners and aluminium alloy pistons and together they worked it up into a production engine which also had improvements such as twin-magneto ignition and not only more power per litre but more power courtesy of a longer stroke. The engine also had fewer individual parts than the Clerget and cost less to build.
After significant opposition from the Admiralty, which felt that Lieutenant Bentley had gone beyond his brief, the engine was put into production at Humber as the Admiralty Rotary No.1, later renamed the Bentley Rotary No.1 (BR1). Bentley would collaborate with Burgess again on a larger, more powerful engine, the BR2, and on the first Bentley-badged car, but Bentley Motors would not come into existence until well after the war was over.
Rolls-Royce's reluctance to build aero-engines stemmed mostly from Henry Royce's concern that his company's methods were not suited to building engines in the quantities or rates that the Admiralty (which penned the initial specification for the Eagle) would require, and his related refusal to consider giving any of the work to outside contractors which would not meet his standards. He also baulked at the Admiralty's requirement that the engine be air-cooled, since Rolls-Royce had no experience with the design of such engines or with working with the materials needed to make them. Eventually the Admiralty was convinced to allow the engine to be water-cooled and, after studying a Mercedes racing engine, the final design bore a strong resemblance to the familiar 'Silver Ghost' power unit. But with Bentley-designed aluminium pistons.
Eric Mc said:
Interesting stuff.
Rolls Royce had been in at the dawn of aviation in Brtitain as Charles Rolls was one of the famous pioneer aviators. Unfortunately, he was killed in an aeroplane crash in 1910 so who knows where Rolls Royce might have gone in aviation terms if Rolls had lived.
This is an excellent book for anyone who wants to know more about Rolls: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Charlie-Rolls-Pioneer-Avi... Enough detail to keep even Eric happy I'd say Rolls Royce had been in at the dawn of aviation in Brtitain as Charles Rolls was one of the famous pioneer aviators. Unfortunately, he was killed in an aeroplane crash in 1910 so who knows where Rolls Royce might have gone in aviation terms if Rolls had lived.
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