Reds to Waddington
Discussion
aeropilot said:
spikep said:
Can you imagine what carnage it would be on the A1 if they went to Leeming or Wittering; the other 2 options. There would have been pile ups every time they practised.
Should have moved them to Lossie..... 
Lossie was lucky to get P-8.
spikep said:
aeropilot said:
spikep said:
Can you imagine what carnage it would be on the A1 if they went to Leeming or Wittering; the other 2 options. There would have been pile ups every time they practised.
Should have moved them to Lossie..... Yertis said:
Chedders said:
Very happy with the news, they belong in Lincoln - we live down the road from the Waddington base 
Lincolnshire was described on R4 yesterday as their "spiritual home". Their spiritual home is surely Gloucestershire.
However, they have now spent nearly twice as long based in Lincs as they did in Glos.....so, maybe that's what they mean?
Should have been given the chop though now IMHO.
Yertis said:
Why's that? Their magnetic PR effect is astonishing. I mean, trust me, it really is.
There's got to be a dispassionate "Cost vs Benefit" case when the MOD is so financially stretched already. Of course swinging a axe through the MOD, it's red-tape, inefficiency and awful supply/procurement system would give us far more money back than cancelling the Red's ever would but that'll never happen, there's far too many noses in the money trough (on both sides) for that to happen.
For example having to legally be forced to use a middle-man company when purchasing anything, because a small amount of Officers/MOD couldn't be trusted to be fair/unbribed, ramps up costs for everything for absolutely zero benefit to the end user. The infamous case is the Landrover headlight bulbs which were 65p via wholesale yet the MOD was charged £22 by the middle company - who then just bought them at 65p wholesale making a whopping £21.35 profit - thats the sort of everyday crap that needs to be axed but all that happens is the the company goes and another takes it's place.
I left in 2014 and I very much doubt anything has changed since then.
^^^All valid points.
But clearly, the MOD can't really afford the Reds, as by their very needs they require operation from an exclusive airfield, and by the fact they have decided to close yet another handful of them, we simply don't have any more left.
Every time the Reds have tried to co-exist at another operation airfield, even a training one, its been a fiasco on operation needs. Some would say, that the Reds as non-operational should play 2nd fiddle to operation needs, but I've repeatedly heard that is never the case. That's crazy, and ridiculous.
The RAF of today is simply no longer big enough to sustain a 9-ship display team FFS. Reds used to fly the flag for RAF CFS, when CFS used to attract many overseas pilot training, but CFS is basically privatised now, so the Reds are really hardly representative of CFS.
Back in the heyday of the Reds when flying Gnats, CFS had a fleet of 100 odd Gnat T.1 trainers, so the Reds was 10% of the bought fleet.
The RAF no longer uses the ancient T.1 as a trainer, and it now only has a fleet of 28 (or less) of Hawk.T2's and the Reds have 10 x T1's...!
They are never going to be flying the T.2 on those numbers, and the remaining T.1's are close to being older than the Red Arrows pilots flying them.....again a ludicrous state of affairs.
The T.1's will have to be retired at some point, their OSD is being stretched out far enough as it is, and so the Reds can't go on for much longer.
Closing Scampton, and no longer having an airfield of their own, and flying an almost historic jet, is not the stuff of PR dreams any longer.....the announcement of closing Scampton should have also been the announcement of the end of the Reds.
But clearly, the MOD can't really afford the Reds, as by their very needs they require operation from an exclusive airfield, and by the fact they have decided to close yet another handful of them, we simply don't have any more left.
Every time the Reds have tried to co-exist at another operation airfield, even a training one, its been a fiasco on operation needs. Some would say, that the Reds as non-operational should play 2nd fiddle to operation needs, but I've repeatedly heard that is never the case. That's crazy, and ridiculous.
The RAF of today is simply no longer big enough to sustain a 9-ship display team FFS. Reds used to fly the flag for RAF CFS, when CFS used to attract many overseas pilot training, but CFS is basically privatised now, so the Reds are really hardly representative of CFS.
Back in the heyday of the Reds when flying Gnats, CFS had a fleet of 100 odd Gnat T.1 trainers, so the Reds was 10% of the bought fleet.
The RAF no longer uses the ancient T.1 as a trainer, and it now only has a fleet of 28 (or less) of Hawk.T2's and the Reds have 10 x T1's...!
They are never going to be flying the T.2 on those numbers, and the remaining T.1's are close to being older than the Red Arrows pilots flying them.....again a ludicrous state of affairs.
The T.1's will have to be retired at some point, their OSD is being stretched out far enough as it is, and so the Reds can't go on for much longer.
Closing Scampton, and no longer having an airfield of their own, and flying an almost historic jet, is not the stuff of PR dreams any longer.....the announcement of closing Scampton should have also been the announcement of the end of the Reds.
And to add to all the above, many people who saw proper air shows in the 60s, 70s and early 80s think the Dead Sparrows are just plain boring. No noise, too slow, and too far away.
I’d rather see a Starfighter approaching at just under Mach 1 and pulling up, the once, than any Reds display from the last 40 years.
I’d rather see a Starfighter approaching at just under Mach 1 and pulling up, the once, than any Reds display from the last 40 years.
's grave much be kept, shame they were Tony1963 said:
And to add to all the above, many people who saw proper air shows in the 60s, 70s and early 80s think the Dead Sparrows are just plain boring. No noise, too slow, and too far away.
I’d rather see a Starfighter approaching at just under Mach 1 and pulling up, the once, than any Reds display from the last 40 years.
That isn't going to ever happen though, is it. Most people who see the Reds Arrows now haven't seen the proper airshows of the '70s, '80s and '90s (I didn't see any 1960s, having not been born, I'll take your word for it). You may think their display boring, but otherwise it's Typhoon, F35, and some transport aircraft, all painted the same shade of grey. Most non-aviation people continue to be amazed, because they're nothing to compare it to. And TBH they're still one of the very best teams, having seen nearly all of them over the years. They pull in the crowds, no two ways about it.I’d rather see a Starfighter approaching at just under Mach 1 and pulling up, the once, than any Reds display from the last 40 years.
The RAF rely on the Red Arrows to remind us that they exist, and thereby secure ongoing public recognition and pride. There's that line in 'The Right Stuff' movie – "No bucks, no Buck Rogers" (which by the way I often think about when I hear RAF personnel griping about enthusiasts). Lose that public pride and sooner or later the RAF will just fade away.
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