Fighter flying hours
Discussion
This might have come from the data that the FAA use in the USA for certification of private warbird jets, and the data for the MiG-21, which is supposed to have a fatigue life of 1200, 1500 & 1600 hrs, depending on version, although there's a claim that the ultimate version, the MiG-21bis fatigue life was 2400 hrs.
Whether this low fatigue life translates into the newer MiG-29, Su-27 types is another matter, although as there are civvie versions of those in the USA as well, there is probably FAA documentation as well with this info.
Frodo citing 7500 hrs for the Tornado is some going, no wonder they were all knackered by the end.
I remember most of the last of the F.6 Lightnings, when retired in 1988 were all in the 3500-4000 hrs range with a couple that nudged past the 4000 hr mark.
I seem to recall the UK F-4K/M fatigue life was around the 5000 hr mark, from the memory of the painting up of Black Mike.
Whether this low fatigue life translates into the newer MiG-29, Su-27 types is another matter, although as there are civvie versions of those in the USA as well, there is probably FAA documentation as well with this info.
Frodo citing 7500 hrs for the Tornado is some going, no wonder they were all knackered by the end.
I remember most of the last of the F.6 Lightnings, when retired in 1988 were all in the 3500-4000 hrs range with a couple that nudged past the 4000 hr mark.
I seem to recall the UK F-4K/M fatigue life was around the 5000 hr mark, from the memory of the painting up of Black Mike.
Dr Jekyll said:
Watching a documentary about the Eurofighter, one of the experts said that Soviet/Russian aircraft have a fatigue life of 2000 hours compared with 6000 for Western designs. Is this still the case? And what does that correspond to in terms of years of use?
Well, they are probably (at least) 3x cheaper to make, and they can make more of them, and they probably don't care too much about fatigue life anyway...aeropilot said:
This might have come from the data that the FAA use in the USA for certification of private warbird jets, and the data for the MiG-21, which is supposed to have a fatigue life of 1200, 1500 & 1600 hrs, depending on version, although there's a claim that the ultimate version, the MiG-21bis fatigue life was 2400 hrs.
Whether this low fatigue life translates into the newer MiG-29, Su-27 types is another matter, although as there are civvie versions of those in the USA as well, there is probably FAA documentation as well with this info.
Frodo citing 7500 hrs for the Tornado is some going, no wonder they were all knackered by the end.
I remember most of the last of the F.6 Lightnings, when retired in 1988 were all in the 3500-4000 hrs range with a couple that nudged past the 4000 hr mark.
I seem to recall the UK F-4K/M fatigue life was around the 5000 hr mark, from the memory of the painting up of Black Mike.
Considering the length of the average Lightning sortie, a couple of hundred flying hours a year doesn't sound too bad.Whether this low fatigue life translates into the newer MiG-29, Su-27 types is another matter, although as there are civvie versions of those in the USA as well, there is probably FAA documentation as well with this info.
Frodo citing 7500 hrs for the Tornado is some going, no wonder they were all knackered by the end.
I remember most of the last of the F.6 Lightnings, when retired in 1988 were all in the 3500-4000 hrs range with a couple that nudged past the 4000 hr mark.
I seem to recall the UK F-4K/M fatigue life was around the 5000 hr mark, from the memory of the painting up of Black Mike.
brickwall said:
Do those numbers not seem insanely low? Not doubting their veracity, but let’s say the procurement cost of these things is £50m a jet, scrapping them at 4000 hours implies a depreciation cost of £12,500 per hour.
No doubt the maintenance/spares/repairs is eye-watering.
Fuel I’m guessing pretty cheap because I’m guessing the government doesn’t pay tax on it (to itself).
I’m guessing for a fast jet you don’t get much change out of £25k per hour.
We worked on a ballpark £40k/hr for Tornado, it gets more expensive with newer aircraft...!No doubt the maintenance/spares/repairs is eye-watering.
Fuel I’m guessing pretty cheap because I’m guessing the government doesn’t pay tax on it (to itself).
I’m guessing for a fast jet you don’t get much change out of £25k per hour.
Dr Jekyll said:
aeropilot said:
This might have come from the data that the FAA use in the USA for certification of private warbird jets, and the data for the MiG-21, which is supposed to have a fatigue life of 1200, 1500 & 1600 hrs, depending on version, although there's a claim that the ultimate version, the MiG-21bis fatigue life was 2400 hrs.
Whether this low fatigue life translates into the newer MiG-29, Su-27 types is another matter, although as there are civvie versions of those in the USA as well, there is probably FAA documentation as well with this info.
Frodo citing 7500 hrs for the Tornado is some going, no wonder they were all knackered by the end.
I remember most of the last of the F.6 Lightnings, when retired in 1988 were all in the 3500-4000 hrs range with a couple that nudged past the 4000 hr mark.
I seem to recall the UK F-4K/M fatigue life was around the 5000 hr mark, from the memory of the painting up of Black Mike.
Considering the length of the average Lightning sortie, a couple of hundred flying hours a year doesn't sound too bad.Whether this low fatigue life translates into the newer MiG-29, Su-27 types is another matter, although as there are civvie versions of those in the USA as well, there is probably FAA documentation as well with this info.
Frodo citing 7500 hrs for the Tornado is some going, no wonder they were all knackered by the end.
I remember most of the last of the F.6 Lightnings, when retired in 1988 were all in the 3500-4000 hrs range with a couple that nudged past the 4000 hr mark.
I seem to recall the UK F-4K/M fatigue life was around the 5000 hr mark, from the memory of the painting up of Black Mike.
brickwall said:
Do those numbers not seem insanely low? Not doubting their veracity, but let’s say the procurement cost of these things is £50m a jet, scrapping them at 4000 hours implies a depreciation cost of £12,500 per hour.
No doubt the maintenance/spares/repairs is eye-watering.
Fuel I’m guessing pretty cheap because I’m guessing the government doesn’t pay tax on it (to itself).
I’m guessing for a fast jet you don’t get much change out of £25k per hour.
If anything 4000 hours might be a bit toppy.No doubt the maintenance/spares/repairs is eye-watering.
Fuel I’m guessing pretty cheap because I’m guessing the government doesn’t pay tax on it (to itself).
I’m guessing for a fast jet you don’t get much change out of £25k per hour.
A friend of mine works at Waddington on the Typhoon, they were already scrapping the early airframes 2+ years ago as the structure life limit was reached (I believe it was the interface between the composite and titanium bits in the frame that was the limiting factor). They were taking the various components off the airframes to be recycled into other aircraft as well, as obviously every spare that goes onto an aircraft is lifed and tracked, they can use the good condition stuff on newer aircraft.
Steve vRS said:
aeropilot said:
About right probably in UK terms.
The US publish their hourly costs each year.
F-22 = $58,000
CV-22 Osprey = $64,000
F-35A = $67,000
B-52H = $70,000
C-5 Galaxy = $101,000
B-2 Spirt = $130,000
Crikey, a C-5 is expensive to run!!The US publish their hourly costs each year.
F-22 = $58,000
CV-22 Osprey = $64,000
F-35A = $67,000
B-52H = $70,000
C-5 Galaxy = $101,000
B-2 Spirt = $130,000
brickwall said:
frodo_monkey said:
brickwall said:
Do those numbers not seem insanely low? Not doubting their veracity, but let’s say the procurement cost of these things is £50m a jet, scrapping them at 4000 hours implies a depreciation cost of £12,500 per hour.
No doubt the maintenance/spares/repairs is eye-watering.
Fuel I’m guessing pretty cheap because I’m guessing the government doesn’t pay tax on it (to itself).
I’m guessing for a fast jet you don’t get much change out of £25k per hour.
We worked on a ballpark £40k/hr for Tornado, it gets more expensive with newer aircraft...!No doubt the maintenance/spares/repairs is eye-watering.
Fuel I’m guessing pretty cheap because I’m guessing the government doesn’t pay tax on it (to itself).
I’m guessing for a fast jet you don’t get much change out of £25k per hour.
I remember a few years back when Typhoons were being used in the middle east, 'Sharkey' Ward went off on a rant about how much cheaper it would have been to keep the Sea Harriers in service to do the same job. It turned out that his estimated cost for using the Harriers was purely fuel cost, which might have been a reasonable approximation of marginal cost but ignored the costs of keeping them in service. While his cost for Typhoons (which were in service anyway) was based on total cost including fuel depreciation hangarage etc etc, then adding on the fuel again.
brickwall said:
Do those numbers not seem insanely low? Not doubting their veracity, but let’s say the procurement cost of these things is £50m a jet, scrapping them at 4000 hours implies a depreciation cost of £12,500 per hour.
I was just thinking the same but not on cost. If my maths are correct it means they are only in the air for an average of 5 hours a week.Dr Jekyll said:
brickwall said:
frodo_monkey said:
brickwall said:
Do those numbers not seem insanely low? Not doubting their veracity, but let’s say the procurement cost of these things is £50m a jet, scrapping them at 4000 hours implies a depreciation cost of £12,500 per hour.
No doubt the maintenance/spares/repairs is eye-watering.
Fuel I’m guessing pretty cheap because I’m guessing the government doesn’t pay tax on it (to itself).
I’m guessing for a fast jet you don’t get much change out of £25k per hour.
We worked on a ballpark £40k/hr for Tornado, it gets more expensive with newer aircraft...!No doubt the maintenance/spares/repairs is eye-watering.
Fuel I’m guessing pretty cheap because I’m guessing the government doesn’t pay tax on it (to itself).
I’m guessing for a fast jet you don’t get much change out of £25k per hour.
I remember a few years back when Typhoons were being used in the middle east, 'Sharkey' Ward went off on a rant about how much cheaper it would have been to keep the Sea Harriers in service to do the same job. It turned out that his estimated cost for using the Harriers was purely fuel cost, which might have been a reasonable approximation of marginal cost but ignored the costs of keeping them in service. While his cost for Typhoons (which were in service anyway) was based on total cost including fuel depreciation hangarage etc etc, then adding on the fuel again.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good rant
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