Mooring Contracts
Discussion
Prompted by another PH member, I thought it would be interesting to investigate the weird and wonderful world of mooring contracts.
Would you sign a contract that, for example, the owners of the marina/swinging mooring can claim a % value of your yacht if/when sold?
I know that moorings in certain places are very desirable, so do you just agree to this, and other conditions of contract, or tell them to do one?
I think I know the answer, but would enjoy reading other (worldwide) viewpoints.
Would you sign a contract that, for example, the owners of the marina/swinging mooring can claim a % value of your yacht if/when sold?
I know that moorings in certain places are very desirable, so do you just agree to this, and other conditions of contract, or tell them to do one?
I think I know the answer, but would enjoy reading other (worldwide) viewpoints.
Edited by pequod on Tuesday 14th July 18:05
Surprisingly, this is not that uncommon.
IIRC it has also been tested in court and in those cases, the Marina lost. Trying to think where I read this, it may come to me eventually if you want further detail, though I imagine some searching would yield results.
Edit: re-reading you're also saying mooring rather than just marina, I'm no expert but imagine it's a very similar scenario though the cases I read about were marina specific.
IIRC it has also been tested in court and in those cases, the Marina lost. Trying to think where I read this, it may come to me eventually if you want further detail, though I imagine some searching would yield results.
Edit: re-reading you're also saying mooring rather than just marina, I'm no expert but imagine it's a very similar scenario though the cases I read about were marina specific.
Edited by WTRacer on Tuesday 14th July 21:43
pequod said:
Maybe my post was too specific to elicit a wider response?
There must be many t&c's that berth holders and river mooring customers may be somewhat 'restrictive'?
I would bet that there are many desirable locations that are only available to certain club members, for example!
This is true, but I am on the committee of our local Yacht Club (West Mersea YC) and we certainly would never dream of having something like that in our mooring contracts. Members pay significantly less than commercial rates charged by other mooring companies in our area and from a club perspective, members are owners of the club, so it would be outside of everyone's interest to do something like that and definitely wouldn't be acceptable to the membership as a whole.There must be many t&c's that berth holders and river mooring customers may be somewhat 'restrictive'?
I would bet that there are many desirable locations that are only available to certain club members, for example!
Other clubs may do things differently, but I cannot imagine a scenario where I would swallow something like that no matter where it is.
I was able to negotiate my way out of a possible 2%, but if the contract states it and you sign it, you could be borked.
One riposte I thought of was to say (to the marina owner) 'And can I have 2% of your Mercedes when you sell it?'
Ref Catweasle - marinas can be particular who they let in, so the idea of a boat being sold at its mooring and being taken over by students or travellers is something they'd wish to avoid. Indeed that was why the marina I'm moving to had the 2% - as a clawback against possible damages from a new owner they hadn't approved.
One riposte I thought of was to say (to the marina owner) 'And can I have 2% of your Mercedes when you sell it?'
Ref Catweasle - marinas can be particular who they let in, so the idea of a boat being sold at its mooring and being taken over by students or travellers is something they'd wish to avoid. Indeed that was why the marina I'm moving to had the 2% - as a clawback against possible damages from a new owner they hadn't approved.
Krikkit said:
Maybe I'm being naive here, but if you're already paying for the mooring then why on earth have they got an interest in your boat when you sell? What's that got to do with them?
Absolutely nothing. Sounds like a complete try-on. How have they, in any way, had a hand in the value of your boat if you sell it? Have they invested any of their money into it? What if you change mooring, and sell a year or 2 after that?You are paying them a monthly or whatever interval fee for the service they provide: a mooring. How the hell do they think they should share in a transaction in which they have played no part, and to which they are not a party.
It's outrageous.
Edited by Europa1 on Wednesday 15th July 21:41
Krikkit said:
Maybe I'm being naive here, but if you're already paying for the mooring then why on earth have they got an interest in your boat when you sell? What's that got to do with them?
I agree with you. But then what’s to stop me selling it to my brother for £1. Here you go toss pots. Have your 2p. I can’t believe anybody would agree to that. What if you boat is with a few hundred million. I’m not sure I would fancy giving % of it away.
Europa1 said:
Krikkit said:
Maybe I'm being naive here, but if you're already paying for the mooring then why on earth have they got an interest in your boat when you sell? What's that got to do with them?
Absolutely nothing. Sounds like a complete try-on. How have they, in any way, had a hand in the value of your boat if you sell it? Have they invested any of their money into it? What if you change mooring, and sell a year or 2 after that?You are paying them a monthly or whatever interval fee for the service they provide: a mooring. How the hell do they think they should share in a transaction in which they have played no part, and to which they are not a party.
It's outrageous.
Edited by Europa1 on Wednesday 15th July 21:41
But the difficulty here as Simpo said you've signed a contract agreeing to it. No doubt that pejorative percentage clause would have been buried on page 36 of the contract among a load of very carefully written unnecessarily complicated waffle and presented with a manipulative sleight of hand specifically intended not to draw your attention to it but the fact remains you've agreed.
Regrettably screwing money out of clients whenever any opportunity presents rather than fostering a long term mutually beneficial relationship with them is the way of the world now.
Couple of random Googles.
"Sale of Vessel
4.1 In the event of a sale by the Owner of any Vessel moored or stored at the Marina, the Owner shall pay to the Company upon request a commission of 2% of the net sale price or value realised or £250 (whichever is the greater) and VAT thereon unless sold through the Company’s nominated broker at each marina."
https://www.castlemarinas.co.uk/marina-terms-condi...
and:
"A Mooring/Hardstanding Contract is between Willowbridge Marina and an individual and is not transferable, even if a craft is sold or passed on to another owner. No craft, whether under contract or not, may be sold from the premises, without the written permission of Willowbridge Marina. Even where premission is granted, any such sale, where not transacted through the offices of our Brokerage service, will be subject to a minimum fee of 4% of the inclusive sale price."
https://www.willowbridgemarina.co.uk/services/Serv...
"Sale of Vessel
4.1 In the event of a sale by the Owner of any Vessel moored or stored at the Marina, the Owner shall pay to the Company upon request a commission of 2% of the net sale price or value realised or £250 (whichever is the greater) and VAT thereon unless sold through the Company’s nominated broker at each marina."
https://www.castlemarinas.co.uk/marina-terms-condi...
and:
"A Mooring/Hardstanding Contract is between Willowbridge Marina and an individual and is not transferable, even if a craft is sold or passed on to another owner. No craft, whether under contract or not, may be sold from the premises, without the written permission of Willowbridge Marina. Even where premission is granted, any such sale, where not transacted through the offices of our Brokerage service, will be subject to a minimum fee of 4% of the inclusive sale price."
https://www.willowbridgemarina.co.uk/services/Serv...
paintman said:
unless sold through the Company’s nominated broker at each marina
This is the key sentence. Some marinas try to do this on lots of services - run a closed yard so either you use their contractors or you pay them to allow yours on site. A bit like a "corkage fee" at old-fashioned restaurants.When I was a church organist I used to get paid even if the couples getting married brought their own organist and I had a lie-in!
Simpo Two said:
NickCQ said:
When I was a church organist I used to get paid even if the couples getting married brought their own organist and I had a lie-in!
Wow, that means I could be a church organist too! Stay in bed, get paid, never play a note, bish bash bosh!NickCQ said:
...
When I was a church organist I used to get paid even if the couples getting married brought their own organist and I had a lie-in!
OT but reminds me of the time when a retired friend was appointed Temp Verger at our local Abbey and attended his first funeral in his official role.When I was a church organist I used to get paid even if the couples getting married brought their own organist and I had a lie-in!
After the service the Undertaker sidled up and passed him a brown envelope containing a few quid. My pal was dumbfounded as he was unaware that all officials at weddings/funerals/etc., held at the church, received payment!!
He donated the cash to the church!
Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff