Discussion
I posted this as an answer to my own thread about abandoned looking boats moored on the Thames, but felt this could do with a separate thread as I fancy some positive answers, hopefully from Hardy owners.
"I saw a little boat for sale at a Thames Marina. A Hardy 20. Cute old school looking thing.
Little galley in the cockpit, outboard motor, room for 2 to sleep and a tiny head but with no loo fitted.
£9500
Thought it would make a nice hobby but apart from loads of Broads holidays and the ability to moor a 10 berth on my own (blows on fingers) lol, I have no idea about boats.
Guess I'm looking at cost of mooring, insurance, maybe I need a licence, anti fouling etc
Nice thought but I guess the on going yearly costs mount up."
So I realise mooring could be £2500 a year or more, £800 pa for a river licence, then fuel, insurance, anti fouling, safety certificate. What have I missed?
Anyone do this and think it's worth it?
Cheers.
As kids we had a Hardy Family Pilot 20. Let me tell you rather than sleep 2, it could sleep 5, albeit with 2 of these being teenage boys life got a little fraught occasionaly.
Ours was mostly trailered - and that did need maintenance from time to time.
I don't think you are missing out much in terms of your costs list. Nice boats.
If you want to plane, you will need an engine at the top range.
Ours was mostly trailered - and that did need maintenance from time to time.
I don't think you are missing out much in terms of your costs list. Nice boats.
If you want to plane, you will need an engine at the top range.
Alot of the mooring costs can be avoided by getting a trailer for it. Most of the maintenance costs will be the engine. The great thing about plastic boats is that theres very little maintenance. Being in the marine trade I can't stress enough how horrific antifoul is. Don't use it. The trade is being forced (rightly so) to move away from it. I can reccomend copper coating. It's much more expensive to apply but it will last 10 years this saving you money in the long run. Hardy's live up to their name. Great build quality and ideal for work and play. Anything else you want to know just ask.
If you want to use it inland you won't be doing any planing!
My main concern would be the fact it has no WC. What will you do when need one?
As for costs, I'd say you're comfortably in but it depends what river you plan to keep it on. Insurance is relatively cheap - get a quick quote at www.craftinsure.com - and the BSS is every 4 years = about £35pa. The only thing you didn't mention is engine servicing, unless you plan to do it yourself. Similarly you can do your own antifoul, or pay someone else to do it (charged per foot).
I have a 27' cabin cruiser and find it well worth the cost.
My main concern would be the fact it has no WC. What will you do when need one?
As for costs, I'd say you're comfortably in but it depends what river you plan to keep it on. Insurance is relatively cheap - get a quick quote at www.craftinsure.com - and the BSS is every 4 years = about £35pa. The only thing you didn't mention is engine servicing, unless you plan to do it yourself. Similarly you can do your own antifoul, or pay someone else to do it (charged per foot).
I have a 27' cabin cruiser and find it well worth the cost.
Roverload said:
Being in the marine trade I can't stress enough how horrific antifoul is. Don't use it. The trade is being forced (rightly so) to move away from it. I can reccomend copper coating. It's much more expensive to apply but it will last 10 years this saving you money in the long run.
Valid point; mine is coppercoated and it seems to be working after 8 years. The hassle saved is massive, and no need to haul it out.A good friend of mine has a boat, I honesty cannot for the life of me remember what it is but it's a power boat, I believe reasonably fast, but also liveable (well, sleepable) on. He's had it a good number of years.
I'm taking early retirement soon, and I was talking to him last week and said that the idea of buying a boat often appeals to me. His response, with my own best interests very much at heart, was, "don't just don't"
I'm taking early retirement soon, and I was talking to him last week and said that the idea of buying a boat often appeals to me. His response, with my own best interests very much at heart, was, "don't just don't"
CAPP0 said:
A good friend of mine has a boat, I honesty cannot for the life of me remember what it is but it's a power boat, I believe reasonably fast, but also liveable (well, sleepable) on. He's had it a good number of years.
I'm taking early retirement soon, and I was talking to him last week and said that the idea of buying a boat often appeals to me. His response, with my own best interests very much at heart, was, "don't just don't"
Which is utterly illogical because he's had his boat 'a good number of years'. Why hasn't he sold it?I'm taking early retirement soon, and I was talking to him last week and said that the idea of buying a boat often appeals to me. His response, with my own best interests very much at heart, was, "don't just don't"
If you take his advice you'll simply end up with a pile of money in the bank and an un-ticked box.
Theres an easy solution for toilet on board. I've just acquired a shetland with a portable toilet under the bunk. They cost around £30-40 with no plumbing work. Totally self contained and has a separate tank for the blue liquid stuff so you can sort of flush it and keep the smell out. Nifty bit of kit.
Roverload said:
Being in the marine trade I can't stress enough how horrific antifoul is. Don't use it. The trade is being forced (rightly so) to move away from it. I can reccomend copper coating. It's much more expensive to apply but it will last 10 years this saving you money in the long run.
Apologies for the hjack but if copper coating systems perform even close to conventional anti foul then why does hardly anybody in a very high fouling area like the Thames estuary use them and continues to put up with the annual faffage of painting anti fouling every spring instead? There's certainly enough boat owners not shy of spending a fortune on the best for their boats but a copper coated boat is highly unusual to see either in a yard or or on a brokers description of one up for sale.
If I could be sure it'd work then I'd copper coat mine - but I'm not convinced.
Jaguar steve said:
Roverload said:
Being in the marine trade I can't stress enough how horrific antifoul is. Don't use it. The trade is being forced (rightly so) to move away from it. I can reccomend copper coating. It's much more expensive to apply but it will last 10 years this saving you money in the long run.
Apologies for the hjack but if copper coating systems perform even close to conventional anti foul then why does hardly anybody in a very high fouling area like the Thames estuary use them and continues to put up with the annual faffage of painting anti fouling every spring instead? There's certainly enough boat owners not shy of spending a fortune on the best for their boats but a copper coated boat is highly unusual to see either in a yard or or on a brokers description of one up for sale.
If I could be sure it'd work then I'd copper coat mine - but I'm not convinced.
If it is so much better than standard antifoul paint in terms of the environment and avoiding the annual lift out, block off, preparation and painting of the normal stuff, I'm surprised it isn't advertised by yacht manufacturers as a plus point to persuade customers of its advantages particularly if it lasts 10 years? The cost of applying it to a new hull must be significantly less than having to grit blast layers of old antifoul off a used boat before application. Maybe it's offered as an 'extra' on new craft and would certainly make sense to opt for it if it really does do what it says on the tin?
Anyhow, back to Hardy 20's ....
I confess, I had to Google 'Hardy 20' to see what they are like - they're rather nice little boats 
Didn't expect to see them going quite so quick for some reason! - https://youtu.be/FQtLXjGOLtA
Didn't expect to see them going quite so quick for some reason! - https://youtu.be/FQtLXjGOLtA
Simpo Two said:
NB To the OP - if you have £9,500 budget there are many other options including bigger boats with more facilities. Or is it specifically the Hardy you like?
It was seeing the one up for sale that piqued my interest and then looking them up. Just looked like a proper little boat Have only idly thought about having a boat from time to time.
pequod said:
Jaguar steve said:
Roverload said:
Being in the marine trade I can't stress enough how horrific antifoul is. Don't use it. The trade is being forced (rightly so) to move away from it. I can reccomend copper coating. It's much more expensive to apply but it will last 10 years this saving you money in the long run.
Apologies for the hjack but if copper coating systems perform even close to conventional anti foul then why does hardly anybody in a very high fouling area like the Thames estuary use them and continues to put up with the annual faffage of painting anti fouling every spring instead? There's certainly enough boat owners not shy of spending a fortune on the best for their boats but a copper coated boat is highly unusual to see either in a yard or or on a brokers description of one up for sale.
If I could be sure it'd work then I'd copper coat mine - but I'm not convinced.
If it is so much better than standard antifoul paint in terms of the environment and avoiding the annual lift out, block off, preparation and painting of the normal stuff, I'm surprised it isn't advertised by yacht manufacturers as a plus point to persuade customers of its advantages particularly if it lasts 10 years? The cost of applying it to a new hull must be significantly less than having to grit blast layers of old antifoul off a used boat before application. Maybe it's offered as an 'extra' on new craft and would certainly make sense to opt for it if it really does do what it says on the tin?
Anyhow, back to Hardy 20's ....
Secondly I never said it was better. I said it is a credible alternative to a destructive practice. In addition I see plenty of copper coat boats in yards.
Grit blasting isnt at all a good idea on a fibreglass boat. I use a paint stripper and good old 40 grit back to bare gel coat.
I thought the whole point of the modern 'sacrificial' antifoul that you have to replace every 2- 3 years was that it was far less harmful to the environment than the traditional tin-based one.
It's surprising science hasn't thought of the perfect answer. What about teflon or some other sooper-tough slippy thing?
It's surprising science hasn't thought of the perfect answer. What about teflon or some other sooper-tough slippy thing?
Simpo Two said:
I thought the whole point of the modern 'sacrificial' antifoul that you have to replace every 2- 3 years was that it was far less harmful to the environment than the traditional tin-based one.
It's surprising science hasn't thought of the perfect answer. What about teflon or some other sooper-tough slippy thing?
They banned certain chemicals from being used bit it's not enough. Yards are under ever more increasing pressure to shoulder some of the responsibility for this issue. For instance the guidance for yards when it comes to pressure washing bottoms now includes a separate filtered tank for the run off to ensure particles dont end up making it back into the water. Theres talk of yards having to ban customers from removing and applying antifoul to their own boats. Some yards take it more seriously than others but it's clear to me that it's only a matter of time before this becomes law. The pressure is on. Government, RYA and trade bodies are issuing new guidance far more often when it comes to ecological matters of late. Soon you'll have to fill your water tanks using a colour coded yard hose and have to receive training from the yard on how to correctly use it aswell as signing to state that the hose it totally empty when you hand it back... joy. It's surprising science hasn't thought of the perfect answer. What about teflon or some other sooper-tough slippy thing?
Roverload said:
Simpo Two said:
I thought the whole point of the modern 'sacrificial' antifoul that you have to replace every 2- 3 years was that it was far less harmful to the environment than the traditional tin-based one.
It's surprising science hasn't thought of the perfect answer. What about teflon or some other sooper-tough slippy thing?
They banned certain chemicals from being used bit it's not enough. Yards are under ever more increasing pressure to shoulder some of the responsibility for this issue. For instance the guidance for yards when it comes to pressure washing bottoms now includes a separate filtered tank for the run off to ensure particles dont end up making it back into the water. Theres talk of yards having to ban customers from removing and applying antifoul to their own boats. Some yards take it more seriously than others but it's clear to me that it's only a matter of time before this becomes law. The pressure is on. Government, RYA and trade bodies are issuing new guidance far more often when it comes to ecological matters of late. Soon you'll have to fill your water tanks using a colour coded yard hose and have to receive training from the yard on how to correctly use it aswell as signing to state that the hose it totally empty when you hand it back... joy. It's surprising science hasn't thought of the perfect answer. What about teflon or some other sooper-tough slippy thing?
The question, which is less harmful to the environment (both human and wildlife) in a boatyard, is based on land pollution rather than the effectiveness of the product when afloat.
Larger vessels are now using ultrasonic antifouling! Have they consulted the Whale community?
ETA Grit blasting using Olivine is perfectly fine providing the operator is an expert. Same as scraping, if an over enthusiastic yard trainee sets about your boat with acid and scraper, a few gouges in the gel coat are a possibility!!
Edited by pequod on Saturday 19th September 17:09
Edited by pequod on Saturday 19th September 17:11
Roverload said:
They banned certain chemicals from being used bit it's not enough. Yards are under ever more increasing pressure to shoulder some of the responsibility for this issue. For instance the guidance for yards when it comes to pressure washing bottoms now includes a separate filtered tank for the run off to ensure particles dont end up making it back into the water. Theres talk of yards having to ban customers from removing and applying antifoul to their own boats. Some yards take it more seriously than others but it's clear to me that it's only a matter of time before this becomes law. The pressure is on. Government, RYA and trade bodies are issuing new guidance far more often when it comes to ecological matters of late. Soon you'll have to fill your water tanks using a colour coded yard hose and have to receive training from the yard on how to correctly use it aswell as signing to state that the hose it totally empty when you hand it back... joy.
How much of this is actually sensible and reasonable, and how much is EU officialdom inventing more rules to make life more expensive and difficult?Anyway, if all you say comes true then all boats will have have beards of green claggy stuff and barnacles on them making them slower and less fuel-efficient thereby emitting more carbons... I thought modern antifoul (inland at least) worked by dissolving, ie the growths can't get a grip, rather than toxicity, but may be wrong.
pequod said:
Roverload said:
Simpo Two said:
I thought the whole point of the modern 'sacrificial' antifoul that you have to replace every 2- 3 years was that it was far less harmful to the environment than the traditional tin-based one.
It's surprising science hasn't thought of the perfect answer. What about teflon or some other sooper-tough slippy thing?
They banned certain chemicals from being used bit it's not enough. Yards are under ever more increasing pressure to shoulder some of the responsibility for this issue. For instance the guidance for yards when it comes to pressure washing bottoms now includes a separate filtered tank for the run off to ensure particles dont end up making it back into the water. Theres talk of yards having to ban customers from removing and applying antifoul to their own boats. Some yards take it more seriously than others but it's clear to me that it's only a matter of time before this becomes law. The pressure is on. Government, RYA and trade bodies are issuing new guidance far more often when it comes to ecological matters of late. Soon you'll have to fill your water tanks using a colour coded yard hose and have to receive training from the yard on how to correctly use it aswell as signing to state that the hose it totally empty when you hand it back... joy. It's surprising science hasn't thought of the perfect answer. What about teflon or some other sooper-tough slippy thing?
The question, which is less harmful to the environment (both human and wildlife) in a boatyard, is based on land pollution rather than the effectiveness of the product when afloat.
Larger vessels are now using ultrasonic antifouling! Have they consulted the Whale community?
ETA Grit blasting using Olivine is perfectly fine providing the operator is an expert. Same as scraping, if an over enthusiastic yard trainee sets about your boat with acid and scraper, a few gouges in the gel coat are a possibility!!
Edited by pequod on Saturday 19th September 17:09
Edited by pequod on Saturday 19th September 17:11
We've only ever blasted steel and we had to have an outside company come in and do it for us, the amount of mess it created would make it very difficult to contain outdoors I imagine not to mention the cost would likely make it prohibitive for most boat owners. I imagine a superyacht in a dry dock would be a different matter though. It usually boils down to a guy with a sander hooked up to an extractor. I did a fishing boat a few weeks ago, even with the ppe I had an eye infection and sores all over my face after a week of that. Hideous.
Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff