estimating canoeing speed on a river

[Chainsaw Rebuild]

Hello! I am looking at a canoeing trip next year using Canadian canoes and we are trying to estimate our speed for planning the trip.

The web suggests we will be paddling about 3mph. If the average flow of the river is 4mph, do we just add the canoeing speed to the river speed to give um 7mph "across the ground"?

[Huntsman]

Yes. Correct assuming you are going down stream.

[pequod]

Just be aware if the average flow of the river is 4 mph there will be stretches where it will be much faster, usually narrow and/or shallow, so maybe research the river flows and potential danger areas before setting off.

How experienced are you in these boats?

[Chainsaw Rebuild]

Thanks for the replies! I have done a 3 day trip before on the river Wye, we are looking to go on the Thames in May.

[john2443]

The Thames has frequent locks, so you'll be delayed a bit at each one. Some people take canoes through them, but you're supposed to portage (carry) round them. Some have rollers to go down, presumably gently lowering boats down the rollers is intended, but going like a roller coaster sounds fun

The flow goes round the outside of the bends so you'll be faster by swopping sides at each one, rather than keeping left or right.

[pequod]

Ah, ok, no rapids on that river.

Stay well away from the weirs though, and the hire boats and gin palaces!!

[Chainsaw Rebuild]

That's interesting about the flow speeds on the edge of the bends being higher, and things to avoid, thank you.

We are hoping to go all the way from the source to the sea, I have read up on the Thames below Teddington being more serious. Have you guys got any advice?

[pequod]

Chainsaw Rebuild said:

That's interesting about the flow speeds on the edge of the bends being higher, and things to avoid, thank you.

We are hoping to go all the way from the source to the sea, I have read up on the Thames below Teddington being more serious. Have you guys got any advice?

When you say, to the sea, where are you intending to end the adventure?

I don't want to get too far off your question but, where are you intending to stay overnight and haul your canoe to a safe place? I would imagine, although I have not experienced what you are proposing, that finding suitable inlets to get off the Tideway for your b&b may be a bigger challenge?

Also, the Tideway will have tidal flow against you at some point so that will need some consideration.

Personally, if you get to Teddington Lock, you will have done well.

[mcdjl]

Chainsaw Rebuild said:

That's interesting about the flow speeds on the edge of the bends being higher, and things to avoid, thank you.

We are hoping to go all the way from the source to the sea, I have read up on the Thames below Teddington being more serious. Have you guys got any advice?

After teddington the river is tidal which changes it hugely. Trying to paddle against the flow will tire you quickly for little ground cover. Also as you get further into London launch and recovery points are limited. That said it can be done, have a look for the port of London kayaking guide. It will recommend things like a radio for kit and how to keep it off the way of commercial traffic. There was an attempt at an organised paddle on the Thames with it shut to powered craft, unfortunately they wanted to run it as a race and charge a lot for the privilege. There are a couple of clubs which be able to help. Also avoid the Easter weekend which will see the devises to Westminster race.

[Sway]

Once into the tidal section, as long as the wind isn't up it's not too bad.

If rowing boats with the freeboard a couple of inches above the water can train throughout winter you'll be fine!

When tide is against you, tuck into the bank. When with, mid stream and catch a free ride.

Large landing point at Putney just before the bridge might be a good stop.

If you're feeling brave, in the upper reaches with the gin palaces get in close and ride the surf. Catch it right and you won't need to paddle much...

[Ayahuasca]

Sounds like fun.

Reminds me I must read Jerome K Jerome.

[Chainsaw Rebuild]

Thanks for all the replies so far. The internet is saying below Teddington lock the river flows at about 4-7mph when the tide is going out, and the tidal part of the river is 65 miles.

A river speed of 4-7mph and a paddling speed of 3mph gives me 7-10mph, is there any reason why it's not feasible to paddle the whole way in one long day?

The canoe provider I am talking to is wanting to charge my group loads for stopping in London, because they will have to take the canoes away and bring them back the next day. My thinking is why not have our metaphorical weetabix for breakfast, go with the tide and do it in one go.

[Sway]

The Devises to Westminster race should let you know that's (likely) unfeasible.

Record for that is around 15 hours. That's in a race boat, by two very experienced marathon kayakers with months of prep specifically for the race.

There's also the matter of very careful timing to get onto the receding tide at exactly the right point to make the most of it.

Any chance of contacting canoe/rowing clubs to see if they can offer secure overnight storage whilst you park up in a hotel/B&B?

Off the top of my head, I can think of westel at Hampton, Richmond Canoe club (guess where?!) and the rowing clubs at Putney.

[Simpo Two]

Chainsaw Rebuild said:

Thanks for all the replies so far. The internet is saying below Teddington lock the river flows at about 4-7mph when the tide is going out, and the tidal part of the river is 65 miles.

A river speed of 4-7mph and a paddling speed of 3mph gives me 7-10mph, is there any reason why it's not feasible to paddle the whole way in one long day?

The canoe provider I am talking to is wanting to charge my group loads for stopping in London, because they will have to take the canoes away and bring them back the next day. My thinking is why not have our metaphorical weetabix for breakfast, go with the tide and do it in one go.

There are two high tides and two low tides every day (roughly). So I doubt one outgoing tide will last long enough to get you through.

[dudleybloke]

You will more realistically be averaging 5/6mph by my experience.

[Ganglandboss]

[mcdjl]

Chainsaw Rebuild said:

Thanks for all the replies so far. The internet is saying below Teddington lock the river flows at about 4-7mph when the tide is going out, and the tidal part of the river is 65 miles.

A river speed of 4-7mph and a paddling speed of 3mph gives me 7-10mph, is there any reason why it's not feasible to paddle the whole way in one long day?

The canoe provider I am talking to is wanting to charge my group loads for stopping in London, because they will have to take the canoes away and bring them back the next day. My thinking is why not have our metaphorical weetabix for breakfast, go with the tide and do it in one go.

The tidal river will flow with you for 6 hours, then against you for the same length of time. If you can paddle constantly at full speed for that length of time....wow! Given you'll be dodging river traffic, bridges and all sorts I'd guess a sensible distance per day at 20 miles (+/-10 depending on fitness, sight seeing etc). You might do more but it will be less fun and you won't want to paddle the next day.

[mcdjl]

In case you weren't aware of how serious the Thames is it's life boat station is the only permanently/ full time manned rnli station in the country.

[Chainsaw Rebuild]

Ok, thanks again for the advice. I had misunderstood this and now I realise I wont have the tidal flow with us for long enough in a day to ride it all the way, for some stupid reason I had forgotten that there are 4 tides a day, not 2!! stupid boy.

Pausing at a canoe/rowing club is a good idea.

Basically we want to be more self sufficient than paying a company to hold our hands, take canoes away and bring them back etc - it's meant to be more of an expedition than a guided tour. Your advice is helping me sort this out, so thanks again.

[Simpo Two]

This is why outboard motors were invented!

Or get a V8 on a stick like in the James Bond films....