'The Dambusters...' Ch5

[Simpo Two]

OK so it's a story we all know, but next week Dan Snow is doing a 3-part series starting on Channel 5, Tues 1 Dec at 9pm.

I expect the dams will now be 'NAZI dams' (because we can't say 'German' any more because it might offend some liberals) and the CGI will be a bit dodgy because it's made by kids who grew up playing computer games, but it's probably still worth watching. Let's not mention the dog eh!

[Wacky Racer]

You mentioned the dog.......but I think you got away with it.

[dr_gn]

A three part series. FFS how? It’s not like every available detail hasn’t been told, retold and over analysed multiple times over the past 77 years. Why not throw in a pointless debate on Spitfires vs Messerschmitts and how Hurricanes were “more stable gun platforms“ for good measure?

[Simpo Two]

Wacky Racer said:

You mentioned the dog.......but I think you got away with it.

dr_gn said:

A three part series. FFS how? It’s not like every available detail hasn’t been told, retold and over analysed multiple times over the past 77 years. Why not throw in a pointless debate on Spitfires vs Messerschmitts and how Hurricanes were “more stable gun platforms“ for good measure?

Well quite, but there are still many people out there who know only Strictly and Eastenders. We are all anoraks here

[williamp]

Good point. Will we learn anything new??

maybe we'll hear what would have happened if they'd used Halifax or B-24 instead?? or maybe Whitleys

Extra points if they use footage from here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u18b65Om2jA

(The Carling black label advert)

[Simpo Two]

One programme I did enjoy was some years ago when they got a modern-day RAF crew to fly the Dams raid in a simulator and see if they could do it.

[LotusOmega375D]

It does seem to have been done to death. Being C5 it will probably be padded out with loads of “coming up”, re-caps, advert breaks and oft seen archive footage, mixed in with scenes from the B/W film. The actual original content would probably be enough for a one hour programme.

I will be interested in Dan’s opinion on the effectiveness of the raid. It was the Soviets who suffered the highest death toll.

[Simpo Two]

The first thousand bomber raid would be another good subject - from memory Nuremburg 1943 - Bomber Command roped in everything that would fly to scrape 1,000.

Amiens and Tirpitz have been covered by documentaries; what other RAF WW2 raids would be a good subject do we think?

[Eric Mc]

For most of the general population, the RAF has only ever done two things in its 102 year history, the Battle of Britain and The Dambusters raid.

The best Dambusters documentary I can recall is a 1993 (50th Anniversary programme) shown on Channel 4. I have it on VHS somewhere.

[LotusOmega375D]

Wasn’t Cologne the first “1000” bomber raid. Although I don’t think that magic number was actually reached. Yes, other operations would be of more interest to me.

Just going back to the Battle of Britain documentaries: how many times have you seen that close-up footage of what I think is the machine guns in a Hurricane wing being fired?

Edited by LotusOmega375D on Saturday 28th November 10:17

[dr_gn]

I can’t remember the last time I watched TV in terms of sitting in front of the telly for the evening and watching scheduled programs. A very long time ago I saw an episode of a series where IIRC a group of pilots had to supposedly go through a dumbed-down version of 1940’s training to ultimately get to fly a Spitfire. There was the woman Spitfire pilot (Grace?), presumably there to make it more inclusive, and some other randoms, and it was a format where the candidates (contestants) were ‘voted off’ if they made some irrelevant error. It was absolutely dire. Trying to make it relevant to the dumbass Big Brother watching masses.

[Eric Mc]

They followed the same format for selecting a Lancaster crew - except the crew had to fly on the B-17 "Sally B", as the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight would not make themselves available for that type of nonsense. One participant did manage to get a flight in the airworthy Canadian Lancaster though.

[MarkwG]

dr_gn said:

I can’t remember the last time I watched TV in terms of sitting in front of the telly for the evening and watching scheduled programs. A very long time ago I saw an episode of a series where IIRC a group of pilots had to supposedly go through a dumbed-down version of 1940’s training to ultimately get to fly a Spitfire. There was the woman Spitfire pilot (Grace?), presumably there to make it more inclusive, and some other randoms, and it was a format where the candidates (contestants) were ‘voted off’ if they made some irrelevant error. It was absolutely dire. Trying to make it relevant to the dumbass Big Brother watching masses.

I don't recall the show, but suspect you're thinking of Carolyn Grace - she's not the "token woman" by any measure, http://airleasing.co.uk/?page_id=24

[dr_gn]

MarkwG said:

dr_gn said:

I can’t remember the last time I watched TV in terms of sitting in front of the telly for the evening and watching scheduled programs. A very long time ago I saw an episode of a series where IIRC a group of pilots had to supposedly go through a dumbed-down version of 1940’s training to ultimately get to fly a Spitfire. There was the woman Spitfire pilot (Grace?), presumably there to make it more inclusive, and some other randoms, and it was a format where the candidates (contestants) were ‘voted off’ if they made some irrelevant error. It was absolutely dire. Trying to make it relevant to the dumbass Big Brother watching masses.

I don't recall the show, but suspect you're thinking of Carolyn Grace - she's not the "token woman" by any measure, http://airleasing.co.uk/?page_id=24

I know exactly who she is (couldn’t remember her name), but out of all the Spitfire pilots in the world, how many are women, and why was a woman chosen for the show?

[MarkwG]

dr_gn said:

MarkwG said:

dr_gn said:

I can’t remember the last time I watched TV in terms of sitting in front of the telly for the evening and watching scheduled programs. A very long time ago I saw an episode of a series where IIRC a group of pilots had to supposedly go through a dumbed-down version of 1940’s training to ultimately get to fly a Spitfire. There was the woman Spitfire pilot (Grace?), presumably there to make it more inclusive, and some other randoms, and it was a format where the candidates (contestants) were ‘voted off’ if they made some irrelevant error. It was absolutely dire. Trying to make it relevant to the dumbass Big Brother watching masses.

I don't recall the show, but suspect you're thinking of Carolyn Grace - she's not the "token woman" by any measure, http://airleasing.co.uk/?page_id=24

I know exactly who she is (couldn’t remember her name), but out of all the Spitfire pilots in the world, how many are women, and why was a woman chosen for the show?

Perhaps you're reading too much into it: she's well respected in the business, has access & experience with the right aircraft. & there aren't many two seater Spitfires around now, let alone nearly 20 years ago - I'm pretty sure the Grace one was the first in the UK. I'm not sure why it matters?

[Eric Mc]

I have a lot of time for all the Grace family - especially as Carolyn and her kids had to pick up the pieces after the death of her husband Nick. I expect she was picked because her own story is inspirational in its own right.

[dr_gn]

MarkwG said:

dr_gn said:

MarkwG said:

dr_gn said:

I can’t remember the last time I watched TV in terms of sitting in front of the telly for the evening and watching scheduled programs. A very long time ago I saw an episode of a series where IIRC a group of pilots had to supposedly go through a dumbed-down version of 1940’s training to ultimately get to fly a Spitfire. There was the woman Spitfire pilot (Grace?), presumably there to make it more inclusive, and some other randoms, and it was a format where the candidates (contestants) were ‘voted off’ if they made some irrelevant error. It was absolutely dire. Trying to make it relevant to the dumbass Big Brother watching masses.

I don't recall the show, but suspect you're thinking of Carolyn Grace - she's not the "token woman" by any measure, http://airleasing.co.uk/?page_id=24

I know exactly who she is (couldn’t remember her name), but out of all the Spitfire pilots in the world, how many are women, and why was a woman chosen for the show?

Perhaps you're reading too much into it: she's well respected in the business, has access & experience with the right aircraft. & there aren't many two seater Spitfires around now, let alone nearly 20 years ago - I'm pretty sure the Grace one was the first in the UK. I'm not sure why it matters?

That might be it actually.

I just thought the whole thing trivialised the subject by trying to make it fit a totally inappropriate tv concept. To be fair, my memory is extremely poor, but I’m pretty sure there was a ‘voting off’ element.

Contrast it with the 80’s BBC “Fighter Pilot” series, which simply followed RAF pilot candidates from day one, and showed the selection and training process. No bullst, just how it was. Found it on YouTube recently and binged watched the lot. Loved it then, and now:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nCrY4Frdgn8

[Eric Mc]

Another good series from the mid 80s is "Test Pilot" which looked at the test pilot school at Boscombe Down.

I think the common denominator behind a lot of good aircraft documentaries of the 1980s are Brian Johnson and Patrick Uden. They both did a series of programmes for both the BBC and Channel 4 which are all worth watching. They were also involved in some motor racing history documentaries.

[Harfi88]

Out if interest, if needed could the same be done today with Typhoons ? I don’t know much about modern aircraft so don’t call me an idiot

[anonymous-user]

dr_gn said:

....the 80’s BBC “Fighter Pilot” series.....simply followed RAF pilot candidates from day one, and showed the selection and training process. No bullst, just how it was. Found it on YouTube recently and binged watched the lot. Loved it then, and now:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nCrY4Frdgn8

“Just how it was”
Yup, good and bad. Aspects of the series, including the sight of a junior officer perched on the end of his bed eating cold baked beans out of the tin because he’d missed dinner in the mess, and the sequence during elementary/basic flying training where a student was told, basically, “Oh do come along, you’re doing it all wrong, just do it better” led to a total review of RAF flying training.